BTCC Ford Mondeo article

[kmchow]

I thought it would be nice to include this article to help bring us a blast from the psat. Ahh, the ST years--the Golden age of touring cars.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2...r-Touring.html

[BudLightJaguar]

Did the car benefit from using V6 insted of inline-4? Theoretically, V6 could be smoother running at high rpm, but since they had rpm limit in 8500...

btw. very interesting compared to the current BTCC cars, that wheel arches are standard.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

..
btw. very interesting compared to the current BTCC cars, that wheel arches are standard.

Was the same under the preceding Group A regs, and as I understand it a major factor for the cost escalation in ST, as the room for wider tires had to be made underneath the bodywork, which mandated a complex redesign.


The different perception of Super Touring in the UK and in Germany is also very interesting. For you guys it's the gold standard, by which all touring car racing is measured, for most Germans it's DTM's poor cousin that was accepted only as a second tier series...

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The different perception of Super Touring in the UK and in Germany is also very interesting. For you guys it's the gold standard, by which all touring car racing is measured, for most Germans it's DTM's poor cousin that was accepted only as a second tier series...

I suspect the reason we regard it over here as a bit of a golden age of touring car racing is not necessarily just about the cars/regulations - it's also the fact that we had grids full of manufacturer teams with full time professional drivers. At it's peak it was probably the most competitive motorsport series out there, and that combined with cars that the general public could genuinely aspire to own really pulled in the crowds.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by gregc

I suspect the reason we regard it over here as a bit of a golden age of touring car racing is not necessarily just about the cars/regulations - it's also the fact that we had grids full of manufacturer teams with full time professional drivers. At it's peak it was probably the most competitive motorsport series out there, and that combined with cars that the general public could genuinely aspire to own really pulled in the crowds.

I don't even think that's the point, STW Cup wasn't far behind in terms of manufacturer involvement with Honda, Peugeot, Nissan, Alfa, Opel, BMW and Audi. Though I am not sure all of them had a full factory team at the same time. Still a lot better in sheer numbers than anything that came after and on par with DTM in its late 80s heyday.

[AxelF]

German audience expects loud bangs and big wings. And it should sound like at least a V8, maybe more...

In 90s, our dream cars were BMW M3 E30 and Mercedes 190E 2.5-16 Evo I/II. And of course Ford Sierra/Sapphire Cosworth.
Cars, that could be bought directly after sundays race in the nearest factory dealer!!!

I was glad of STW years too, i also like the look of these cars. Very low and still like your everyday car.

For me, competition on the track makes my day. Not wild looks, loud sound and a lot of horsepower.

[Speed-King]

Another thought: What prompted BTCC to switch to the 2-liter formula in the first place?

I can see them wanting to get rid of the the 4-class format where the championship rarely went to the best driver in the field, but why didn't they switch to a modified Group A single class format like DTM and the French series had back then?

Not that I am complaining, but at the time, going it on their own must have been the more risky option, as no one could know what a smash hit the 2 liter formula would turn out to be. (DTM's endless politicing over BoP might have had something to do with it, I supposse, but was that all?)

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Another thought: What prompted BTCC to switch to the 2-liter formula in the first place?

It was covered in the recent autosport retro special on super touring. Basically manufacturers/dealerships wanted to sell larger numbers of the run of the mill 2 litre class cars. They could sell a sports or GT class car easily, but they only got a hand full of these to sell each year, where as they got an unlimited number of the 2 litre cars to move. A touring car class that focussed on these would be a success for manufacturer support, so I guess they just hoped that a fan base would follow. And it did.


Regarding the benefit of having 6 cylinders, there really wasn't any aside from perhaps a slight torque advantage. I have read that due to additional losses from the extra 2 cylinders the rev limit on the 6's was raised to 9000rpm, from 8500rpm for all of the other engines (including the volvo 5's). I think the biggest benefit for Ford was that it was something different to the others and sounded fantastic.

[AxelF]

Originally Posted by mikuni

It was covered in the recent autosport retro special on super touring. Basically manufacturers/dealerships wanted to sell larger numbers of the run of the mill 2 litre class cars. They could sell a sports or GT class car easily, but they only got a hand full of these to sell each year, where as they got an unlimited number of the 2 litre cars to move. A touring car class that focussed on these would be a success for manufacturer support, so I guess they just hoped that a fan base would follow. And it did.


Regarding the benefit of having 6 cylinders, there really wasn't any aside from perhaps a slight torque advantage. I have read that due to additional losses from the extra 2 cylinders the rev limit on the 6's was raised to 9000rpm, from 8500rpm for all of the other engines (including the volvo 5's). I think the biggest benefit for Ford was that it was something different to the others and sounded fantastic.

Yes, with cars like ST or WTCC you can sell cars on monday after the race. With cars from DTM or F1/WEC you can polish your brand image only.

[andy97]

One of the things that interests me about the Mondeo is that it has a long and difficult development path before becoming successful. Several companies tried and failed to achieve success with it before Prodrive finally managed, Andy Rouse, WSR, Reynard. ISTR that both 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines were tried. Anyone know any more details of why it had such a difficult route to success?

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by andy97

One of the things that interests me about the Mondeo is that it has a long and difficult development path before becoming successful. Several companies tried and failed to achieve success with it before Prodrive finally managed, Andy Rouse, WSR, Reynard. ISTR that both 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines were tried. Anyone know any more details of why it had such a difficult route to success?

They just kept at it until all the better manufacturers left?

No, but I believe it was just an extremely complex package. Later in development the engine was leaning forward to the front back was almost horizontal. I've read about how if it wasn't at full revs it was leaking oil, if you chucked it into a gravel trap is sucked up stones and broke the cam belt. The car was a nightmare by all accounts, and much more difficult to get right than the 4 cylinders.

Plus, the other years the best car won. 1994 the Alfa had the aero advantage. 1995 the Cavalier was in its 5th year of development and was a cracker. 1996 the Audis had the 4wd advantage. 1997, the Laguna was the most successful super tourer ever and run by a famous F1 team. 1998 had the powerful Volvo win, but I believe the Primera was capable this year too. They were ahead of the pack. In 1999 the aforementioned cars swapped places.

So, was it that the Mondeo wasn't right, or that the others were just better.

In fact, had the Mondeo done a full season in its debut in 1993 it very well could have won that year. It won the touring car world cup in '93 and '94, don't forget.

Oh, and if you have to ask what made the Super Touring years great, just look at the list of winners above. Add Toyota and BMW to the mix and you have a great mix of manufacturer championships, rather than one team cleaning up every year.

[S griffin]

The Mondeo was probably the best car at the end of 93, shame it took so long to get it competitive. As a result Radisich was probably favourite for the title in 94. It actually had a good chance against the Alfa, despite the Mondeo being a tyre chewer, which probably cost it at, but it then started dropping back in qualifying and then it became unreliable. Radisich for his part still managed to win three races out of four at Donington at the end of the year, which could have been four had he not had that engine problem on the formation lap. 1995 didn't start too badly and the Mondeo took two wins that year, but by the end it was really struggling. 1996 saw the switch to WSR and basically they were starting from scratch. Radisich's talent got the car in reasonable positions sometimes, but it was not a year to remember. The next year Reynard built the cars and after a slow start, the car finally became a podium contender by the end of the year. 1998 was better with Hoy taking a win at Silverstone. It was particularly good in the wet as well. Then Prodrive took over.

[Aunt Sally]

Originally Posted by kmchow

I thought it would be nice to include this article to help bring us a blast from the psat. Ahh, the ST years--the Golden age of touring cars.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2...r-Touring.html

It's a shame it is so brief a story with many inaccuracies and omissions throughout.

But a good attempt anyway.

[andy97]

About time that someone wrote the definitive story of the ST era with case studies of individual manufacturers efforts and the evolution of the "formula".

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Regarding the benefit of having 6 cylinders, there really wasn't any aside from perhaps a slight torque advantage. I have read that due to additional losses from the extra 2 cylinders the rev limit on the 6's was raised to 9000rpm, from 8500rpm for all of the other engines (including the volvo 5's). I think the biggest benefit for Ford was that it was something different to the others and sounded fantastic.

I think youre mixing it up with S2000 in 2002-2003 where 6 cylinder cars where given 9000rpm, 5 cylinder 8750rpm and 4 cylinder 8500rpm. Dont think any car in ST ever ran above 8500rpm?

andy97: Better write an entire book about it. I'd but it

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

I think youre mixing it up with S2000 in 2002-2003 where 6 cylinder cars where given 9000rpm, 5 cylinder 8750rpm and 4 cylinder 8500rpm. Dont think any car in ST ever ran above 8500rpm?

You are probably right, but I know I had definitely read it somewhere that the rev limit was higher on ST Mondeo's. I'll try to correct that false piece of information in my brain!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

andy97: Better write an entire book about it. I'd but it

I'd buy the book as well but it needs someone with good access to original info to write it.

[rich07]

I'm surprised someone hasn't written a comprehensive book about the era

[Burp]

I always thought it ran a Mazda based V6