[Rules] Blown diffusers to be restricted from Spain (ESP)

[Marbot]

HRT are not currently a member of FOTA, I believe. And Mr Kolles would be well within his rights to protest the diffusers at the next race, despite reassurances from the FIA that things 'may' be sorted out in time for Silverstone. It's not that the teams can't turn off the extra fuelling. It's trying to police that everyone has done it by the same amount, that is the issue.

There's a lot of rubbish being spoken about having to rewrite maps. But how long does it take you to have things switched on and off inside your own cars ECU?


Points make prizes where Mr Kolles is concerned.

[gwyllion]

A bit more info on http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91661

[Marbot]

I can see it now: 'Blowgate'

[P38 in workshop]

If I understand the "reasoning" correctly,the belief that the blown diffuser concept may be in contravention of the rules certainly uses some tenuous logic.The exhaust is there to conduct exhaust gases from the cylinders of the engine to the outside world.The teams have found the best place to locate the gas flow and they appear willing to accept the weight penalty that goes with making best use of the concept,in the additional fuel consumption.The FIA seem to be working as hard to create reasons to ban this concept as they did to find ways of declaring a Ferrari bargeboard legal a few years ago after the car failed scrutineering.If the only way that Colin Kolles can get his cars in the points is to attempt to protest 22 faster cars for using a system that his guys didn't implement,it speaks volumes.None of which is what I would want people saying about me.

[GolddustMini]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Hispania plan to protest blown floors

This could backfire for them. If Red Bull uses soft tyres in Q1, HRT and Virgin might get within 106%.

now that would be in someways hilarious and in other ways terribly pathetic. i can see the headline "top teams gang up to deny HRT a slot on the grid"

on another note i didnt notice a single virgin car this weekend, i saw loti and hrts but no virgins

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

If I understand the "reasoning" correctly,the belief that the blown diffuser concept may be in contravention of the rules certainly uses some tenuous logic.The exhaust is there to conduct exhaust gases from the cylinders of the engine to the outside world.The teams have found the best place to locate the gas flow and they appear willing to accept the weight penalty that goes with making best use of the concept,in the additional fuel consumption.The FIA seem to be working as hard to create reasons to ban this concept as they did to find ways of declaring a Ferrari bargeboard legal a few years ago after the car failed scrutineering.If the only way that Colin Kolles can get his cars in the points is to attempt to protest 22 faster cars for using a system that his guys didn't implement,it speaks volumes.None of which is what I would want people saying about me.

Yep, in the same way that the Renault mass damper system was all of a sudden declared illegal in the middle of the 2006 season...

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Marbot

HRT are not currently a member of FOTA, I believe. And Mr Kolles would be well within his rights to protest the diffusers at the next race, despite reassurances from the FIA that things 'may' be sorted out in time for Silverstone. It's not that the teams can't turn off the extra fuelling. It's trying to police that everyone has done it by the same amount, that is the issue.

Yes Mr Kolles is within his rights to protest, but that doesn't mean his protest is right.

As I understand it, Kolles is claiming that the blown diffuser is in some way a moveable aerodynamic device. If you stretch the terminology to its limit, the whole car is a moveable aerodynamic device so you have to be a bit more pragmatic than that. The rule was originally introduced to stop variable incidence wings (except where specifically allowed in recent years) and has also been used to outlaw various fan arrangements. However to suggest that moving exhaust gas, or throttle butterflies, or pistons are moveable aerodynamic devices seems like a flight of fantasy.

On the other hand, I think the Charlie Whiting / FIA position recognises that they are dealing with something that is wide open to interpretation. But in coming to the conclusion that the development of blown diffusers is racing well ahead of expectations, they seem to be trying to say that they will apply a new and more restrictive interpretation of the regulations within a couple of races (giving teams a bit of time to change their exhausts and/or diffusers). I don't agree that they should be doing it mid-season but at least it is a lot more reasonable than Kolles's sewage-stirring.

When it comes to rule interpretations getting out of hand, think back to water-cooled brakes and hydro-pneumatic suspensions. This is nothing, in comparison.

[gwyllion]

Kolles states that "you cannot influence the aerodynamics with hot exhaust gasses".

Influence can mean positive as well as negative. In that sense every exhaust solution (e.g., top-exist exhaust pipes) will "influence" the aerodynamics

[browney]

I can't see a protest working because I can't see how the current rules prohibit this. So a protest doesn't seem likely to suceeed.

All I can see is that one of the engine manufactureres and some of the teams don't want to spend the money on this (especially when the engines are due to change so soon).

Maybe one of the faster teams using these devices needs to remind Mr. Kolles if he wants to be a this agressive, that they can choose if he starts a GP or not (with the 107% rule). A few GPs and his team would be gone.

I am still at a loss as to why doing this is such a bad idea for the sport. It is concept that people with even a loose grasp of physics can understand and is much more interesting than just fiddling with little winglets. There still doesn't seem to be an explanation as to why there is such a drive from the FIA to ban these?

[Marbot]

Charlie Whiting has already suggested that the use of exhaust gases to create downforce when the driver takes his foot off the throttle, contravenes article 3.15. So a protest would be valid in his opinion.

"It became apparent to us through examination of data that what we thought was a fairly benign feature was turning into something that was being used, in our opinion, illegally," explained Whiting."

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by browney

I am still at a loss as to why doing this is such a bad idea for the sport. It is concept that people with even a loose grasp of physics can understand and is much more interesting than just fiddling with little winglets. There still doesn't seem to be an explanation as to why there is such a drive from the FIA to ban these?

The blown diffuser concept isn't the problem per se. The exhaust has to go somewhere when the engine is on throttle. It's the fact that some teams are using clever engine maps to keep the gasses flowing whilst the engine is not producing power by burning fuel not in the cylinders but the exhaust pipes in order to keep the aero balance of the car under braking and initial turn in. In other words the phase when normally the driver would be off the throttle and butterflies would be closed.

Burning fuel outside of the combustion chamber purely to create downforce is clearly stretching the limit of the rules and certainly not in the interests of F1 in these green agenda days.

However I imagine just banning it with no notice would cause enormous problems since a major redesign will be necessary, hence the compromise and delay.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

However I imagine just banning it with no notice would cause enormous problems since a major redesign will be necessary, hence the compromise and delay.

I don't think that any major redesigns would be necessary, since the diffuser works as efficiently as it ever would with the drivers foot using the throttle. What would need to be done is to remove the software that creates the exhaust gases when the driver takes his foot off the throttle. It's being able to police the software that's causing the problem

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I can see it now: 'Blowgate'

A RBR insider has come forward. We're calling him "Deep Throttle".

[herowassenna]

Did I read somewhere that Webber was more comfortable with the blown diffuser last year, before updates came in to assist Vettel and ever since Vettel has had the upper hand.
I remember something along those lines but can't recall specifics.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Did I read somewhere that Webber was more comfortable with the blown diffuser last year, before updates came in to assist Vettel and ever since Vettel has had the upper hand.
I remember something along those lines but can't recall specifics.

Official word is that Webber can't use the tyres as well as Vettel is. He's admitted as much himself.