F1 Decade - Imola '93

ChrisUSA · 14 Jul 2003, 01:49 (Ref:660369)

i'm watching Speedtv's terrific presentation of the '93 Italian Grand Prix, have a few questions:
What were the engines revving to back then? they seem to wail to much greater heights now, did they use pneumatic valve closing?
When did they change from slicks to grooved tires, and why?
Were the steering wheels back then the detacheable kind like they are today?
The announcers mentioned that some cars had traction control and others didn't. Was this a new technology that only a few teams were privy to?
Sorry about all the questions, i'm just amazed at how different the cars of today seem to only 10 years ago.

thanks,
Chris

Fish_Flake · 14 Jul 2003, 02:39 (Ref:660374)

I believe they were revving to about 14000 RPM in 1993. They switched to grooved tires before the 1998 season in an attempt to slow the cars down. Traction control was still in its infancy, and the teams that could get it to work were the ones with the budgets to fully develop it. And the steering wheels were still detachable, but they were far more primative to today's gadget-laden units.

I love seeing these old Formula 1 Decade broadcasts just to see some of the old circuits in action. The crowds weren't all herded into expensive grandstands far from what little action there may be on the sterile, second-gear-corner-filled track. There were spectators practically hanging over the concrete wall at the Variante Alta, looking down on the cars. There's an even taller fence there now blocking the view of whomever can sneak up there.

Lee Janotta · 14 Jul 2003, 02:44 (Ref:660376)

Nah, the engines didn't wind nearly that high back then. Not sure, I think it was around 12-13k. Mechanical valves.

Grooved tires came in in 1998, and they the cars were narrowed. Max "Mein Kampf" Mosely claimed it would improve overtaking and safety, and for the overtaking at least, it's done the exact opposite.

Yes, steering wheels have been detachable for a _long_ time, essential just so drivers can get in and out of the cars. But an F1 steering wheel back then was a full wheel, looking more like a CART steering wheel today than the current F1 wheels.

Exactly. Traction control was something the teams started playing around with in the late '80s. Only certain teams had it by '93. In '94, it was banned, though Benneton continued to run it for most of the season on Michael Schumacher's car only.

I'm glad you're enjoying classic F1, Chris. You missed a couple of the best races earlier on, but they'll probably re-show all the F1 Decade broadcasts in some sort of marathon this winter.

BMW V10 · 14 Jul 2003, 04:19 (Ref:660400)

Yeah I have only been watching F1 for about 3-4 years now and I would say one thing I can't grasp is the fact that Jacques was a World Champion. When I started watching F1, I would pray for the McLaren's to break down because it seemed that was the only way for anyone else to win. Seems unbelievable now...

I would love to see a modern day F1 car with slicks on. I think it would look spectacular.

Lee Janotta · 14 Jul 2003, 06:08 (Ref:660442)

Quote:

Originally posted by BMW V10
I would love to see a modern day F1 car with slicks on. I think it would look spectacular.

Yep, it sure does.

Here's a pic from Minardi's pre-season testing this year, when they only had F3000-spec Avon slicks to test on!

http://www.itv-f1.com/media/imagelibrary/14026_2.jpg

Liz · 14 Jul 2003, 11:51 (Ref:660645)

F1 Decade also shows the tremendous variety of cars, engines and talents (or not) that were racing 10 years ago in F1, compared to the clone wars we have today that are different only because of the budgets the teams have to develop them.

And of course I enjoy seeing Prost and Senna, racing each other ferociously on track and pretending the other guy doesn't exist when in the post-race interviews!

Sodemo · 14 Jul 2003, 15:12 (Ref:660847)

And in 1993 we had SPARKS!!!

BMW V10 · 14 Jul 2003, 16:36 (Ref:660933)

Those slicks even make a minardi look good!

Lee Janotta · 14 Jul 2003, 16:39 (Ref:660934)

Forza Zanardi! I love that nutter! Drive it until the wheels fall off!

There was _so_ much more overtaking back then, always something on track worth watching... And '93 was considered at the time to be a bad season in terms of on-track action!

It's not the tracks, it's the cars. Okay, well, it's the tracks too in as much as they suck and are boring today... But it's most the cars that can't pass each other. Grooved tires and the raised noses are absolute enemies of on-track action. Go back to simple construction slicks, ban refuelling, and drop the noses back to the ground with only two elements allowed on the front wing, and you'll see a massive improvement.

pb btcc · 14 Jul 2003, 17:15 (Ref:660965)

the first 4 races of the 93 season had more action than the whole of the 2002 season put together.

the cars were good looking as well back then. Also back then we had Murry walker and James Hunt in the Commentery Box and there made any race sound Exticing

.

Sato san · 14 Jul 2003, 17:55 (Ref:660998)

I enjoyed South Africa early 93 , it was good to see Senna stick one over Prost for as long as he did !

paulzinho · 14 Jul 2003, 18:31 (Ref:661032)

93.... last time I went to a Grand prix! How Senna did what he did with that Mclaren still defies belief!

And those cars were damn sexy too and they didn't look like clones either!

Oh and then there were....mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... slicks!!

**Adam43** · 14 Jul 2003, 18:45 (Ref:661047)

Mmmm. Prost and Senna racing wheel to wheel

Nothing better.

BTW, that's racing, not pitting.

BMW V10 · 14 Jul 2003, 19:10 (Ref:661078)

If we didn't have pitstops today what would it be?

paulzinho · 14 Jul 2003, 19:19 (Ref:661085)

IMO it'd be better....

Would force them to overtake on the track.

NiceGuyEddie · 14 Jul 2003, 19:28 (Ref:661091)

Senna faught brilliantly with his Ford V8 against the Renault V10 power. During that time, Senna raced on a contract which was extended race by race. He wasn't really planning on showing up for Imola, yet, at the final moment he decided to come on over anyway. He flew over from Sao Paulo to Milan and finally arrived at Imola just in time to hop into his car for morningpractice. His lack of preparation showed. He spun in an -for him- unusual manner (and Andretti couldn't help but copying him...) and didn't seem all that motivated. Come raceday, he was fully up there. I believe it was dry weather, but the track was somewhat damp. Prost trailed Senna and of course Senna was hopelessly underpowered agains the Williams. That didn't prevent him from picking a fight with Prost though. At one time the onboard camera in Prosts car registered Prost taking the inside line in the -back than still flat out- Tamburello-corner. Surely, that would've put an end to a brilliant fight, yet, at the end of that corner in the right corner of the screen...Senna's McLaren turned out to be still there!!
Brilliant stuff. Unbelieveable he would die on that exact same spot a year later.

JonesF1 · 14 Jul 2003, 19:55 (Ref:661115)

Quote:

Originally posted by The Monster
And in 1993 we had SPARKS!!!

Which reminds of the best part of the race. When that guy (Zanardi?) flew off the track only to re-enter the race with sparks, fire, and oil spewing out the back of his car. Didnt stop racing until his left rear wheel finally fell off.

Lee Janotta · 14 Jul 2003, 20:09 (Ref:661126)

Quote:

Originally posted by JonesF1
Which reminds of the best part of the race. When that guy (Zanardi?) flew off the track only to re-enter the race with sparks, fire, and oil spewing out the back of his car. Didnt stop racing until his left rear wheel finally fell off.

Yup, Zanardi. Like I said, what a nutter... How can you not love that guy?

sauber c9 · 14 Jul 2003, 21:42 (Ref:661197)

The 1993 engines revved more than 12-13k. i have an old issue of Formula magazine which quoted Honda engineers in 1993 (after Honda pulled out) that their v12 1992 engine was revving at 14 800 and producing 815 hp.

**Adam43** · 14 Jul 2003, 22:18 (Ref:661217)

Autocourse puts the Renault RS5 V10 at 780bhp @ 13800rpm, which was the best overall (and, I think, the most powerful) engine that year.

Champ69 · 15 Jul 2003, 01:57 (Ref:661326)

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Janotta

Exactly. Traction control was something the teams started playing around with in the late '80s. Only certain teams had it by '93. In '94, it was banned, though Benneton continued to run it for most of the season on Michael Schumacher's car only.

Get over it

Lee Janotta · 15 Jul 2003, 02:46 (Ref:661338)

Quote:

Originally posted by Champ69
Get over it

When he gives back the '94 trophy.

Champ69 · 15 Jul 2003, 03:48 (Ref:661375)

Only when Ron gives up the money, Max puts back the regs, proof is shown that schumi cheated and Monty learns to control his car.

**Adam43** · 15 Jul 2003, 07:21 (Ref:661447)

Stick to 1993 or the posts will be deleted. You can just let things go as well as not typing them in the first place

alfasud · 15 Jul 2003, 08:11 (Ref:661480)

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisUSA
What were the engines revving to back then? they seem to wail to much greater heights now, did they use pneumatic valve closing? .....i'm just amazed at how different the cars of today seem to only 10 years ago.

Renault had been running pneumatic valve closing since at least 1990 and I'm sure I've seen some reports that they used them back on their V6 turbo engines too.

The differences between 2003 and 1993 cars may seem a lot, but to me they are reasonably small.

Consider 93-83 - back in 83 we had turbo+full ground effects (or did full ground effects end at beginning or 83?),
or 83-73 - no ground effects at all, no turbos and beautiful cars like JPS Lotus 72,
or 73-63 - little 1.5 litre screamers with no wings or slicks at all,
or 63-53 - do I really need to fill in the details here?

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