Fake Safety Gear Labels

[RickP:Clio51]

Folks,
As shocking as it seems, it appears that someone has been passing off their gear as SFI approved when it hadn't been at all...
There is a press release which is being circulated which I'm never sure if I'm allowed to post or not on here, but the crux of it is that if you've bought gear from "Impact Racings" collection of stuff you run the risk of it being refused at scrutineering in future.
Guess this mostly affects our American cousins... but shockingly I'm even hearing this guy had made fake HANS anchors... pretty worrying.
Cheers
Rick

Press release below, but moderators delete if not appropriate to include, but strikes me as pretty important... so much so, I think I've used my 1000th post for it!

For a downloadable .pdf of this notice, please click on the following link: Decertification Notice 03-26-10.


Edited by mod. Further to my first edit there is a thread in the Oz racing forum with a link which I have added above. I deleted the main copied and pasted section from this post as it may cause us copyright issues. Many thanks Tim. BTW it was only your 999th post.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by RickP:Clio51

Folks,
As shocking as it seems, it appears that someone has been passing off their gear as SFI approved when it hadn't been at all...

Hmm.

Maybe but it could be read another way.

They are talking about fake certification labels not fake products as such, at least the way I read it. Indeed the release suggests that the products will still be accepted for a period of time without the official SFI labels. That suggests that there is no safety issue, or at least it does to me.

So I guess the deal is that the SFI approval comes at the cost of buying labels and stuff from them fro each and every item. They are claiming that the manufacturer actually used fake SFI labels bougth in Asia. (Isn't it amazing what people will find a way to turn a living from?)

So my initial reaction here is that it is a 'right to use' licencing issue, not a safety issue. Whether the use of the allegedly fake labels, etc., could result in other accusations if it can be shown that labels were used for monetary gain (for example) by misrepresentation of quality is another matter.

Of course I could be wrong ...

[Tim Falce]

It appears from the statement that they are only concerned with the labels not the products or they would slap an immediate ban on them not a post dated one.

[mattsmith]

I've got an Impact Racing helmet. As the specs mentioned don't cover helmets am I OK?

I've got a race on Monday and I can't imagine I'll be able to sort out a new one with the bank holiday coming up!

[R59]

There is no fake safety gear at all, just an issue over who supplied the labels.

Unlike FIA certfication, SFI approvals carry labels supplied by SFI, where FIA approvals have it embroidered in the garment.

Bill Simpson has stated that their garments are safe, and they stand by them. They have counter-filed against SFI, so it's a case of wait and see.

Considering Bill Simpson is treated as God when it comes to safety equipment in the US, this spat should be sorted out pretty quickly.

So, before you start shouting off about "fake safety gear" you should get your statements factual before you cry that the sky is falling down.

Regarding the HANS posts issue, some fake posts were found on an Impact helmet - Impact DO NOT supply HANS posts, but will fit ones supplied by the customer. Their helmets are certified for HANS fitting. I had my posts supplied by a certified HANS supplier just down the road from Impact's HQ, and they fitted them. I could have bought the posts off of eBay (lots on there!) and had them sent to Impact, they would have fitted them, and I wouldn't be any wiser if they were real or duds.

I am watching this matter closely as I have an Impact suit, helmet (which is Snell), and everything else to go with it, though my suit is FIA certified and I have been assured that it will still be in order. However it may mean that I have to get another suit if my plans to go racing over there come off.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by mattsmith

I've got an Impact Racing helmet. As the specs mentioned don't cover helmets am I OK?

I've got a race on Monday and I can't imagine I'll be able to sort out a new one with the bank holiday coming up!

The notice does say 90 days from 24th march and also mentions 27th April so in either case you'll be OK. Does the helmet have any other standards labels such as Snell or BSi? The Snell label will be inside under the lining at one side or rear.

[scrutineer]

Matt, the problem seems to only be with the race suits so you should have no problems with your helmet. And as Tim pointed out have a look for the SNELL label under the liner as it has been a while since I saw a SFI helmet.
While I agree with Rob that there seems to be no fake gear out there it is very worrying that a company such as impact have it would seem knowingly breached the conditions of SFI approval, and it may bring into question there integrity after all we are all looking to save money in these tough times.
HANS posts are a side problem, there are people out there who are making/faking these parts and if you are buying them off the internet or anywere for that mater make sure your getting the real deal.

[R59]

I'm sure there will be a long list of tales before a definitive resolution.

If you cast your mind back to the death of Dale Earnhardt, Simpson Race Products, and more to the point Bill Simpson, were blamed for a faulty belt that caused his death, when in fact the matter was the "1-o-clock impact" that killed The Intimidator, and nothing to do with the belts. Bill's house was shot at, he had death threats, and more. Bill sued NASCAR, they paid up out of court (because he was right), and he dropped the case.

At the time, Bill had actually left Simpson Race Products, and was in the process of setting up his own new company - which he did a year after leaving his old company.

I have no doubt that Impact's products are safe, this is just a "it's our ball, and if you want to play on our field, you have to play by our rules" sort of fight.

So far, it's gear dating back to pre-2008 that's in the spotlight. It might be that later gear all bears genuine SFI labels.

You never know - cashflow problems can make people do strange things....

[mattsmith]

The helmet is a Snell 2005 helmet. I just wanted to make sure I didn't have to panic about the issue going further than the obvious. I was planning to get a new lid when the latest standard appeared but that's obviously not happened yet.

Thanks for the advice guys. Panic now over

[Tim Falce]

Matt, Snell 2005 should be good for at least five more years so no need to worry.

[R59]

Here's an update:

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by R59

Here's an update:

To be honest if I was a Impact customer I wouldnt bevery happy with that. As SFI have removed the approval on the gear that means I guess that the FIA (MSA) and the US version can not accept the equipment as 'legal' for race use. And the reply from Impact, sit and wait but we are not giving you any money back or changing your gear for you. Dont think that would wash with me, and in the USA I would have thought there would be loads of court action starting up from the customers of Impact. Think ill stick with my Arai.

[R59]

If the suit is FIA certified, then it's FIA certified, where SFI relys on tags, and it's those tags that are the issue.

Reading more about this spat between SFI and Impact, it turns out that Impact had some "off the peg" suits, boots, etc.. made in the Far East in 2007/8, and it's those items that are carrying the fake SFI tags.

Last year Impact recalled ALL of those items in for checking/recertification, and where they were clearly wrong - they were replaced FOC. However, only 70% were returned, which means that a heck of a lot of gear was still out there in the wild, and I'm assuming that it's this kit that has sparked the problem. At the same time, Impact also had a shipment of fake HANS posts supplied to them - which compounded issues - they looked identical to genuine one, just that they were made out of alloy, not steel. Four people were fired over this issues, and Impact set about rebuilding their reputation, however this latest one from SFI has reopened the wounds.

As an outline, SFI approval is based on the suit manufacturer supplying 7"x7" swatches of the material used for testing. If it passes, then they can have the tags. For FIA approval, the whole suit is tested and homolgated IIRC.

Their Helmets are not affected, they are SNELL certified, and again it's a whole product homologation process.

I'm not saying Impact are blameless here, but they have tried to get all of the dodgy gear back and replace it, but if people won't send it in, what can they do?

It'd be like having a Toyota Prius with a known safety fault, but ignoring the recall notices to get it fixed and make it safe. In that case, who would ban all Toyota Prius' just because a small handful of people chose to ignore the recall?

We'll wait and see what happens in court tomorrow.

[R59]

Press relase up on Impact and SFI's sites.

Impact's 2009 & 2010 gear IS Certified. Everything else has to be checked/verfied.

SFI tags are only valid for 3 years and suits have to be re-certified, unlike FIA where they are valid for the life of the standard.

[midgetman]

Been doing some desktop research (OK, surfing on a quiet sunny afternoon!!!) and came across some more details on this spat. It appears that some Impact racesuits DID fail their fire tests - the threads melted in one case and in another the whole multi-layer composite did not pass the heat transfer test. These were suits taken from drivers at events by the look of it.

There's a blogger out there called OneDirt who has the full low-down, although I take it with a certain amount of healthy scepticism as he does not appear to be Bill Simpson's greatest fan. But the SFI tests are fact.

BTW although for FIA purposes the whole suit is submitted, it's only small sections that are cut out and tested.

[R59]

I'd seen those reports, and that blog. He does seem to be very anti-Bill Simpson, even though this is the man that started the safety revolution in motorsport, and an innovator.

Impact "lost their way" in 07-08 by the looks of it, the full true account may never be told as you can bet your bottom dollar that there are some skeletons in some legally bound closets!

Bottom line is, Impact have addressed the situation, and although some are not 100% pleased with the outcome, the deal has been done.

Our suits (FIA) "last" a lot longer than SFI certifications, which are three years from manufacture if I read it right.

With Simpson suits, after the three years certification is up, you will be unlikely to get it re-certified by them to the same level as it was when it was made, so a SFI-20 will be downgraded to a -15, and so-on. For some that means new suits every three years. For the NASCAR boys, they have multiple suits through the year as sponsors change, so it's not an issue to them. Sometimes they only wear a suit two or three times through the year (out of 36 races).

If you have a FIA Certified Impact suit, none of the SFI spat makes any difference.

I for one am very happy with the quality of the suit that I have. I pray that I'll never need it "in anger".

[Chris Y]

Not entirely related to the original issue, but some of Impact's helmets have had their FIA homologation withdrawn:

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...ia-safety.aspx

I think this may be to do with HANS posts, but I'm not sure.

Also if you have an Impact S-2 suit, it may no longer be valid for motorsport in the UK.

[bdwoody]

sounds more like someone has not paid to be in the "club" and so has had their gear now said to be unsafe !!!!

[midgetman]

Well, you don't need to re-homologate or re-licence racing overalls so that's not the case.

I don't know any reason they would withdraw homologation other than if a sample had proved to be sub-standard in a post-registration quality test.