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Old 27 Jun 2013, 12:18 (Ref:3270494)   #1951
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It was doing that long before we knew Webber had signed......
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 12:33 (Ref:3270507)   #1952
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audi's days over because of webber presence? He is a specialist of F1, but I don't think he will be fast and consistent as lotterer, treluyer and duval in an lmp1. The most dangerous porsche driver for audi is bernhard, that was one of the best drivers of audi line-up in the recent past.
Absolutely not. It's Porsche determination to make difference. The way they work, experience they have. Porsche is not like Toyota or Peugeot. Webber will be a wonder addition for LMP1 program, but will be the whole program to make difference with the rest of Audi opponents.
I still remember how competitive the RS Spyder was, very close to a P1. Dumas and Bernhard are two wonder drivers, and they will be the spearhead of the team.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 12:36 (Ref:3270510)   #1953
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Oh I expect them to be competitive - straight out of the box and they will be using very good drivers to achieve that. Webber is good, don't get me wrong, but it's not as if Alonso or Vettel had jumped ship to sportscars, is it?
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 12:42 (Ref:3270518)   #1954
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Oh I expect them to be competitive - straight out of the box and they will be using very good drivers to achieve that. Webber is good, don't get me wrong, but it's not as if Alonso or Vettel had jumped ship to sportscars, is it?
Alonso? Vettel? No experience in sportscars. Webber has raced in Le Mans with Mercedes, and has proven to be very fast there. I don't think Vettel, or Alonso, or Hamilton may have more credit than Webber in sportscars.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 12:45 (Ref:3270523)   #1955
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What did Webber achieve with Mercedes? He was certainly an excellent 'pilot'.....

Let's just wait and see before we turn him into a Le Mans and WEC winner. The move is a good one, for him and for Porsche - beyond that, we have to wait and see.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 12:51 (Ref:3270525)   #1956
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RS spyder was competitive enough for the overall win only in the hand of penske team (basicly the ALMS porsche work team) and only the bernhard/dumas line-up. Usefull to remember that short and high average speed american tracks were more favourable to lmp2 that were 100kg and more lighter than lmp1. They however won at sebring that is a pro lmp1 track. Is too much early to claim that porsche will beat audi (and toyota) for a reasonable person, but for a porsche fan...
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 12:56 (Ref:3270531)   #1957
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What did Webber achieve with Mercedes? He was certainly an excellent 'pilot'.....

Let's just wait and see before we turn him into a Le Mans and WEC winner. The move is a good one, for him and for Porsche - beyond that, we have to wait and see.
Webber was a fast, if not fastest, driver of Mercedes team. He's won several races with Mercedes CLR. Don't you remember? He set the pole in Le Mans 1998... not so bad!
Vettel or Alonso have only raced in F1... and this doesn't mean they may be Le Mans winner, too. Do you remember Villeneuve?
I'm not saying Webber will win Le Mans, but only he's a very good addition for Porsche team.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 12:58 (Ref:3270532)   #1958
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RS spyder was competitive enough for the overall win only in the hand of penske team (basicly the ALMS porsche work team) and only the bernhard/dumas line-up. Usefull to remember that short and high average speed american tracks were more favourable to lmp2 that were 100kg and more lighter than lmp1. They however won at sebring that is a pro lmp1 track. Is too much early to claim that porsche will beat audi (and toyota) for a reasonable person, but for a porsche fan...
Why is it unreasonable to say that Porsche will beat Audi and Toyota?

Last year, Toyota had to speed up their project and ended up winning three races.

Porsche already have a car on the track, over a year before Le Mans. This gives them a lot of time to test the car and give the drivers time to get comfortable.

Plus the fact that there are new rules increases the chance of unpredictability.

Porsche are very serious about 2014. They want to show the world (and especially Audi) that Le Mans is their playground.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:00 (Ref:3270535)   #1959
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Webber was a fast, if not fastest, driver of Mercedes team. He's won several races with Mercedes CLR. Don't you remember? He set the pole in Le Mans 1998... not so bad!
Vettel or Alonso have only raced in F1... and this doesn't mean they may be Le Mans winner, too. Do you remember Villeneuve?
I'm not saying Webber will win Le Mans, but only he's a very good addition for Porsche team.
That was 15 years ago...

And Villeneuve finished second at Le Mans in 2008 and won 6H of Spa.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:03 (Ref:3270537)   #1960
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"several races with Mercedes CLR"
maybe you need to study better racing history book, CLR only race was the epic (fail) LM 1999.
Webber won some races during 1998 fia gt season, but against who was fighting amg mercedes that year? i answer for you: nobody.
F1 drivers are great drivers, but to enter an F1 driver in a sportscar is not always a success.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:05 (Ref:3270538)   #1961
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Why is it unreasonable to say that Porsche will beat Audi and Toyota?

Last year, Toyota had to speed up their project and ended up winning three races.

Porsche already have a car on the track, over a year before Le Mans. This gives them a lot of time to test the car and give the drivers time to get comfortable.

Plus the fact that there are new rules increases the chance of unpredictability.

Porsche are very serious about 2014. They want to show the world (and especially Audi) that Le Mans is their playground.
Is unreasonable because there is not any evidence of the competitivity of the car. The same can be said for audi, but at least audi comes from 14 years of lmp1 know how.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:08 (Ref:3270541)   #1962
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Far too early to make any serious predictions. Just nice to sit back and think of Webber in the developing Porsche Team. It's good to see him leave the "abusive" relationship he had in F1 to join a team that really want's him. That is always a strong motivator.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:09 (Ref:3270542)   #1963
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"several races with Mercedes CLR"
as far i know the only race that CLR ran was the epic (fail) LM 1999.
Webber won some races during 1998 fia gt season, but against who was fighting amg mercedes that year? i answer for you: nobody.
F1 drivers are great drivers, but to enter an F1 driver in a sportscar is not always a success.
It does'n matter what you say, because he proved to be fast anyway, in confront of his teammates. Then, Le Mans 1999 failure was a Mercedes failure, and not Webber's one. In 1999, anyway, he set the pole (against Toyota...), and was wery well considered in endurance.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:12 (Ref:3270545)   #1964
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"several races with Mercedes CLR"
maybe you need to study better racing history book, CLR only race was the epic (fail) LM 1999.
Webber won some races during 1998 fia gt season, but against who was fighting amg mercedes that year? i answer for you: nobody.
F1 drivers are great drivers, but to enter an F1 driver in a sportscar is not always a success.

It was the CLK instead of CLR.

Last edited by Aysedasi; 27 Jun 2013 at 14:00.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:14 (Ref:3270547)   #1965
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You two need to calm it down. This isn't a war. We all know where you're both coming from. Now let's have some good old-fashioned understanding of each other's views, whether they're polarised or not.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:16 (Ref:3270549)   #1966
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I personally expect Porsche to be very competitive by the time they hit Le Mans. I doubt that Porsche will expect to have to wait for the traditional third time back to win it. But we will see - no-one here, Porsche fan or otherwise, can predict what the future holds in store, other than - we hope- a tremendous three-way battle.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:18 (Ref:3270552)   #1967
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Sharpen up here guys, I mean business.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 13:42 (Ref:3270580)   #1968
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LM1999 pole was set by toyota gt-one in 3.29.9
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 14:02 (Ref:3270592)   #1969
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LM1999 pole was set by toyota gt-one in 3.29.9
I was referring to CLK GT1 and 1998 Le Mans edition. I think everyone can make a mistake. Isn't it?
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 14:05 (Ref:3270594)   #1970
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You make a mistake, someone else corrects you
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 14:07 (Ref:3270597)   #1971
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Great, so now we know who made pole in 1998 and 1999.

Let's move on, shall we?
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 14:18 (Ref:3270604)   #1972
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Great, so now we know who made pole in 1998 and 1999.

Let's move on, shall we?
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 14:20 (Ref:3270606)   #1973
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right, also because after 1999, the mid 2000 le mans editions were not so amazing. My point of view about webber is: he achieved some good results during his youth sportscars career, but first we are talking about 14-15 years ago; and second, porsche has already more expert lmp1 drivers in his team. So i can't see how a driver like webber may be so important for the team. Heidfeld comes from F1 too but jani and prost in my opinion are better drivers than him inside an lmp1.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 14:21 (Ref:3270608)   #1974
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Just put on Sky Sports news....the words "Porsche" and "Le Mans" were used countless times in 5 minutes from a number of people. In a country like Britain where Webber is so popular and the eyes of the general public are on motorsport this weekend, I can't help but feel this was a brilliant time for Porsche to make a big splash.

It's the British Grand Prix and I think I've heard the brand name "Porsche" more than any of the F1 teams!

Really impressed with the drip feed of information coming from Porsche, it's really creating a buzz.

Webber said he knew for some time but that he had been "sticking to a plan". The timing of the announcement looks like a very deliberate move from both parties.
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Old 27 Jun 2013, 14:28 (Ref:3270610)   #1975
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Congratulations!
You've just reached 24.000 messages on the forum!
You are dangerously getting closer to Porsche 29.000 wins!
Now, you've won a Boxster S for this achievement!
Excellent - let me know when I can take delivery!

I confess I would have preferred to reach this milestone with some more useful posts.......

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right, also because after 1999, the mid 2000 le mans editions were not so amazing. My point of view about webber is: he achieved some good results during his youth sportscars career, but first we are talking about 14-15 years ago; and second, porsche has already more expert lmp1 drivers in his team. So i can't see how a driver like webber may be so important for the team. Heidfeld comes from F1 too but jani and prost in my opinion are better drivers than him inside an lmp1.
It's a fair opinion - I tend to agree - I don't see the addition of MW as making all the difference to a program I fully expect to succeed very quickly anyway....
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