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Old 27 Feb 2012, 19:02 (Ref:3032021)   #176
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Melo in the Luxury Pro 458 , with Vernay ..... for Sebring . Good choice .
If this is true (which I hope it is), the planned announcement has been delayed. Will now be announced March 1st according to MtC.
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Old 27 Feb 2012, 19:29 (Ref:3032032)   #177
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i don't know even why bmw obtained that restrictor increase, everybody know that the only bmw gte cars running will be the RLL ones that will run according to the IMSA bop.
I'm really disappointed by the fact of min. weight of porsche and vantage, these are new cars not the old models ones, just for this reason must to start with same weight of others.
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Old 27 Feb 2012, 19:58 (Ref:3032052)   #178
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Originally Posted by alexkiller8 View Post
i don't know even why bmw obtained that restrictor increase, everybody know that the only bmw gte cars running will be the RLL ones that will run according to the IMSA bop.
I'm really disappointed by the fact of min. weight of porsche and vantage, these are new cars not the old models ones, just for this reason must to start with same weight of others.
The Porsche is NOT a new car. It is still based on the outgoing 997.
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Old 27 Feb 2012, 20:28 (Ref:3032068)   #179
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The Porsche is NOT a new car. It is still based on the outgoing 997.
The 2012 911 GT3 RSR is substantially different from last year: increased width (+5 cm), increased diameter of front tyres (+3 cm), paddle shift, new wide body, turbo like air intake in front of rear tyres, ...
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Old 27 Feb 2012, 21:12 (Ref:3032096)   #180
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The Vantage will be quick with those rules. The Evora maybe not. We can hope though!
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 00:26 (Ref:3032188)   #181
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Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
The 2012 911 GT3 RSR is substantially different from last year: increased width (+5 cm), increased diameter of front tyres (+3 cm), paddle shift, new wide body, turbo like air intake in front of rear tyres, ...
just the words i was writing, the 997 gt3 rsr 2012 model is more a brand new car than a model update.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 03:08 (Ref:3032247)   #182
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Originally Posted by alexkiller8 View Post
i don't know even why bmw obtained that restrictor increase, everybody know that the only bmw gte cars running will be the RLL ones that will run according to the IMSA bop..
That number actually reflects a decrease (29.8 to 29.4mm) in restrictor size from last year for the BMW. I made that number Bold because it was different from last year, I just didn't say in which direction.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 05:09 (Ref:3032269)   #183
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Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
The 2012 911 GT3 RSR is substantially different from last year: increased width (+5 cm), increased diameter of front tyres (+3 cm), paddle shift, new wide body, turbo like air intake in front of rear tyres, ...
The increased width is due to rule changes and not the chassis change which will happen if and when there is a 991GT3 RSR. Larger wheel diameter does not a "new car" make.
Paddle shift was already used in the 2011 car.
Intake is just a hole made in the bodywork due to reworked engine cooling that was made possible due to the increase in width.
Yes, the car has been improved, but it still based on the same chassis,body and engine.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 05:10 (Ref:3032271)   #184
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Originally Posted by alexkiller8 View Post
just the words i was writing, the 997 gt3 rsr 2012 model is more a brand new car than a model update.
Please refer to my post above.
No, it is NOT more of a brand new car. It is a model update.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 07:36 (Ref:3032291)   #185
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well, it's clear we have different and irreconcilable opinions (looking your profile pics, don't know how much impartial you can be talking about porsche), but doesn't matter this, what i was talking about is not if 997 is a new/updated model, but why the 997 GT3RSR should keep on having that weight also this year if still none knows how better will run this year than 2011 model that needed that weight cut to obtain a little bit of competitiveness at least in ALMS. I think the same about new aston martin vantage gte and new restrictor size assigned to corvette without any apparent reason.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 10:26 (Ref:3032349)   #186
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Originally Posted by alexkiller8 View Post
well, it's clear we have different and irreconcilable opinions (looking your profile pics, don't know how much impartial you can be talking about porsche), but doesn't matter this, what i was talking about is not if 997 is a new/updated model, but why the 997 GT3RSR should keep on having that weight also this year if still none knows how better will run this year than 2011 model that needed that weight cut to obtain a little bit of competitiveness at least in ALMS. I think the same about new aston martin vantage gte and new restrictor size assigned to corvette without any apparent reason.
BoP is meant to be evolutionary in nature, so I presume that if there are any cars that are outrageously out of whack with the rest of the field, they will be BoP'd into submission( unless they are BMW of course ).

As for my impartiality: I am no more in favor of Porsche than you are are obviously against it, so we cancel each other out.
There is absolutely nothing that I said in my post(s) that is not a fact.

The problem may lie in what each of us considers a "new car".

For me a new car is for example the 458 compared to the previous 430. I do not consider updates on existing models as "new". I consider those to be "current"models.

Last edited by Spyderman; 28 Feb 2012 at 10:41.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 13:51 (Ref:3032420)   #187
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I really don't like those adjustments, again... this is starting to remind GT3 too much, none of the existing cars are running with same restrictor sizes and now that Porsche has adopted reduced IMSA-style ballast half of the cars are also underweight.

I want to see Corvette winning fair and square, not with even bigger air restrictor break than the Family sedans (even though the actual size is still slightly smaller)... and they also have wing reductions & bigger fuel flow restrictors on top of that. I guess the fight against Bimmers is somewhat fairer now but it's still not the ideal solution. I miss the GT1 days, I know there were some adjustments between DBR9 and others but the difference was that the Corvette actually was the superior car most of the time.

Vantage is ridiculous as well but that was always to be expected... they always get what they want. Also weird to see F430 getting 25kg break in GTE-AM, even though none are entered for this year. As 430 is also allowed to run with bigger restrictor than 458 I wonder why Krohn and others didn't opt for it in WEC...

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Old 28 Feb 2012, 13:59 (Ref:3032422)   #188
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I really don't like those adjustments, again... this is starting to remind GT3 too much, none of the existing cars are running with same restrictor sizes and now that Porsche has adopted reduced IMSA-style ballast half of the cars are also underweight.
I don't think the cars running with different restrictors is that big of deal as long as they have different engine capacities and such. I do wonder why the weight for the Porsche is still low, especially with all of the upgrades on the model.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 14:03 (Ref:3032426)   #189
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What I meant that none but Ferrari are running with their base restrictors. But then again 458 is probably still the widest.

Porsche was 1245kg in ACO racing last year so the 25kg reduction is actually new... I don't know why it's not on yellow on that list as the 1220kg (or 1235kg at some times) was the 2011 IMSA weight, not ACO
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 14:48 (Ref:3032450)   #190
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Originally Posted by Spyderman View Post
BoP is meant to be evolutionary in nature, so I presume that if there are any cars that are outrageously out of whack with the rest of the field, they will be BoP'd into submission( unless they are BMW of course ).

As for my impartiality: I am no more in favor of Porsche than you are are obviously against it, so we cancel each other out.
There is absolutely nothing that I said in my post(s) that is not a fact.

The problem may lie in what each of us considers a "new car".

For me a new car is for example the 458 compared to the previous 430. I do not consider updates on existing models as "new". I consider those to be "current"models.
i'm obviously against none, maybe only against lotus for their "something else budging" atttitude, i have nothing against porsche but i'm really disappointed with the waivers that they had in 2011 and seem to still have. My favourite gte car is corvette, but this doesn't blind me to admit that with new restrictors the cars is unfairly unbalanced than the others.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 14:55 (Ref:3032454)   #191
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My favourite gte car is corvette, but this doesn't blind me to admit that with new restrictors the cars is unfairly unbalanced than the others.
Agreed but I think the Vantage still takes the top award of unfairness... BMW close by

It's still not sure if the IMSA actually adapts all the ACO/FIA changes in ALMS, there always some differences between the two specs.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 14:59 (Ref:3032456)   #192
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i'm obviously against none, maybe only against lotus for their "something else budging" atttitude, i have nothing against porsche but i'm really disappointed with the waivers that they had in 2011 and seem to still have. My favourite gte car is corvette, but this doesn't blind me to admit that with new restrictors the cars is unfairly unbalanced than the others.
Yes, and my discussion had nothing to do with fairness or the lack of it.
All I pointed out was that the current 2012 RSR is not a new car , but rather an updated (and improved) model of the same car as last year. It is based on the 997 chassis, body and engine. That was all I wrote.
Any other interpretation that you made was purely imaginary.
Do you not think that I too want to see Porsche win fairly and squarely?
Perhaps you should read some of my older posts.
I hate BoP - I have been against it from the start. (I do however recognize the arguments that is made in its favor but that doesn't mean I like it).
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 18:19 (Ref:3032558)   #193
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If anyone else is like me and completely glazes over at all this BoP talk, OAK Racing have announced their WEC line-ups.

#15 LMP1 - Guillaume Moreau, Bertrand Baguette, Dominik Kraihamer
#24 LMP2 - Matthieu Lahaye, Olivier Pla, Jacques Nicolet

http://www.oak-racing.com/wp-content...r-line-ups.pdf
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 18:24 (Ref:3032564)   #194
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If anyone else is like me and completely glazes over at all this BoP talk, OAK Racing have announced their WEC line-ups.

#15 LMP1 - Guillaume Moreau, Bertrand Baguette, Dominik Kraihamer
#24 LMP2 - Matthieu Lahaye, Olivier Pla, Jacques Nicolet

http://www.oak-racing.com/wp-content...r-line-ups.pdf
omg! that p2 car is absolutely gorgeous! droooooooool

higher res here
http://www.oak-racing.com/news-en/oa...ne-ups?lang=en
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 18:27 (Ref:3032566)   #195
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omg! that p2 car is absolutely gorgeous! droooooooool

higher res here
http://www.oak-racing.com/news-en/oa...ne-ups?lang=en
X 2 - Very sexy!
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 18:32 (Ref:3032568)   #196
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If anyone else is like me and completely glazes over at all this BoP talk, OAK Racing have announced their WEC line-ups.

#15 LMP1 - Guillaume Moreau, Bertrand Baguette, Dominik Kraihamer
#24 LMP2 - Matthieu Lahaye, Olivier Pla, Jacques Nicolet

http://www.oak-racing.com/wp-content...r-line-ups.pdf
Certainly a coup for them! Especially considering the #24 will have far fewer gentleman drivers, it should be a much more competitive season for Oak Racing this year! Although, Olivier Pla is still listed in #35 for Le Mans, so perhaps they still intend to bring some of their usual gentleman driver lineup for the big show?
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 18:46 (Ref:3032574)   #197
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Certainly a coup for them! Especially considering the #24 will have far fewer gentleman drivers, it should be a much more competitive season for Oak Racing this year! Although, Olivier Pla is still listed in #35 for Le Mans, so perhaps they still intend to bring some of their usual gentleman driver lineup for the big show?
Yeah I think Nicolet/Hein/Yvon will be in the #24 at La Sarthe and then another silver driver will partner Lahaye/Pla.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 19:28 (Ref:3032589)   #198
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Yeah I think Nicolet/Hein/Yvon will be in the #24 at La Sarthe and then another silver driver will partner Lahaye/Pla.
Barlesi/Ragues? They aren't listed for any WEC/LM teams as of yet...Though they could potentially even run another platinum driver as Starworks and PeCom are doing.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 21:32 (Ref:3032642)   #199
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There's still the LMS entry for Oak/Morgan, so those guys could be racing there.
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Old 28 Feb 2012, 22:02 (Ref:3032657)   #200
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If this is true (which I hope it is), the planned announcement has been delayed. Will now be announced March 1st according to MtC.
http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-9674.html


Told ya !!!
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