V8 Supercars looks to ditch Hamilton - Page 6

E36ST · 16 Feb 2012, 20:35 (Ref:3026771)

It looks like we do indeed have someone else who wants a go in the electric chair. (Great analogy by the way!).

**Woolley** · 17 Feb 2012, 13:40 (Ref:3027095)

I hope something does happen, ideally with the race moving to February in 2014...

D.R.T. · 18 Feb 2012, 02:04 (Ref:3027406)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

the figures were made to look good and V8s are keen on street races.

Nail on the head. They were sold a myth with the good old economic impact estimations

Just look at the farce Canberra and now Sydney.

How gullable are governments and promoters going to continue to be?

peckstar · 18 Feb 2012, 02:11 (Ref:3027408)

just look at adelaide,

which by the way have the most open information available for any street race that i know of, much more open than the dubious canberra report

the gold coast seems to have survived for many years also.

the thing is with street races, its takes a few years to build them up, if you give up after two or three then you will not get the return

275 GTB-4 · 18 Feb 2012, 03:34 (Ref:3027421)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

just look at adelaide,

which by the way have the most open information available for any street race that i know of, much more open than the dubious canberra report

the gold coast seems to have survived for many years also.

the thing is with street races, its takes a few years to build them up, if you give up after two or three then you will not get the return

They are still ducking and weaving here in Canberra..."elected to office" what a freakin joke it is in this country

formerf1champ · 18 Feb 2012, 08:02 (Ref:3027465)

Would've thought that the Adelaide 500's success had more to do with the fact the race kind of makes up for Adelaide not having the GP there, as far as an event the city can get into is concerned, even after all this time. The Tour Down Under is also a successful event in Adelaide, only because the GP isn't there as well, I suspect. The TDU makes up for, partially, the lack on worldwide presence Adelaide would get with the GP.

Between the two, they still wouldn't have the impact the GP has. Had the GP still been in Adelaide, I'm buggered to know what presence V8 Supercars would have in SA now (outside an appearance as a GP support race) and the TDU may've not even have existed, certainly not in SA. In fact, I think the reason why the TDU exists is because Adelaide had the GP taken away from them.

As far as Hamilton is concerned, this calamity shows the series is overrated (in all aspects) and justifies other NZ cities not buying into V8 bs. Justifies any derision from motor racing fans (actual ones, not those that want to be entertained by a "show"), including on this thread. There may be another race somewhere else in NZ (or another country..err..sorry...I mean "markets") but, like clockwork, it'll be a complete balls up in a fews years.

**Woolley** · 18 Feb 2012, 14:02 (Ref:3027592)

Quote:

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Would've thought that the Adelaide 500's success had more to do with the fact the race kind of makes up for Adelaide not having the GP there,

And having been the former F1 host, so the crowds and the parties are established by that and carried over to the new headline event - and it has to be said, the track suits these cars and the event is well planned. Gold Coast similarly is built up on the Champ Car/Indy international series as headlines as well as having a reputation for one heck of a party. There's no clear evidence you can truck up to a new street track for V8s only and acheive the same level of success or durability. Now that doesn't mean it can't be done, but the current 'big bang' approach may not be right.

peckstar · 18 Feb 2012, 21:36 (Ref:3027728)

Sure there is woolley, happens on the 2nd weekend of october every year.

the thing is that in all those cases it is a few years to get things going.

you dont just start a street race and expect it to have the same level off support, its takes a few years to build up the traditions and the history.

but it seems that 3 years is a bad spot and so thats when the races are being dumped

Tourer · 18 Feb 2012, 22:28 (Ref:3027748)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

And having been the former F1 host, so the crowds and the parties are established by that and carried over to the new headline event - and it has to be said, the track suits these cars and the event is well planned. Gold Coast similarly is built up on the Champ Car/Indy international series as headlines as well as having a reputation for one heck of a party. There's no clear evidence you can truck up to a new street track for V8s only and acheive the same level of success or durability. Now that doesn't mean it can't be done, but the current 'big bang' approach may not be right.

Except that there was a four year gap between the Last F1 race in Adelaide and the first V8 event. The first V8 event in 1999 was a "leap of faith" by the SA Gov't to some extent to get on board with a category that really only got structured properly in 1997. 3 day event (F1 was 4 day, might not sound much but makes a huge difference to ROI) for the V8s to start with and the initial crowds were well less than F1 crowds but it's a well organised, well promoted event that delivers on expectations and has grown to be a 4 day event with crowds up pretty close to the F1 numbers on a shorter track. It too had some tough years but the SA govt have stuck to it, weathered the problems and now have a great event - which actually turns a small profit with part of it's income being (reduced) govt support.

Gold Coast is also a completely re-structured event and in my view the jury is still out on the new format and track layout. Given that it was TC (when he was still at IMG) who rescued the original Indy event in the early 90s and turned it around (with all the festival, party activities added to changes of the core event) I reckon he may still have some ideas to go forward with.

Townsville is a semi street track that seems to be working fine too.

I agree with Pecky that street races do take a while to "bed in" and be accepted - even the Adelaide F1 GP had a pretty tough time of it to start with and a couple of years in. It is when these times are ridden through that the event seems to really come of age. The reality is though, as I've said before, that street races do not work everywhere and in my view they also need a relatively large, dedicated team working on them year round to achieve success at all levels. This is what Clipsal does and it is what the GC Indy had when IMG was running it.

I suspect that a street race for NZ would be a dead dog unless run in Auckland and Auckland's road system is gridlocked enough already without adding to it - resource consent is also a big hurdle for any NZ street race.

It makes more sense to me for a NZ to be at a suitable existing track - if Puke gets redeveloped then it could be the go - it wasn't available any more when the Hamilton decision was made and it was only later that Puke's owners had a change of mind - if they're up for it, some redevelopment there could see it back as the NZ location and I think that wouldn't be a bad thing. Time's gonna tell as always.

formerf1champ · 19 Feb 2012, 05:55 (Ref:3027833)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

Except that there was a four year gap between the Last F1 race in Adelaide and the first V8 event.

It's only 4 years, though, not a long time, still fresh in the memory. Not sure public funds for an ATCC/V8 Supercar race would've been as easily accepted or supported by the SA public had the GP never been there, let alone the knowledge of Melbourne, of all cities, taking the race from them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

Gold Coast is also a completely re-structured event and in my view the jury is still out on the new format and track layout. Given that it was TC (when he was still at IMG) who rescued the original Indy event in the early 90s and turned it around (with all the festival, party activities added to changes of the core event)

Lets be honest though, looking back, should there have been an Indycar race on the Gold Coast? Should there have been an Indycar race outside North America? It was great for Australian motorsport fans, but the event never gained a presence amongst the Australian public.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

Townsville is a semi street track that seems to be working fine too.

This original idea Cochrane has, of trying to turn everything into a freakin concert-street race. Townsville, as a motorpsort fan, least offends me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

I agree with Pecky that street races do take a while to "bed in" and be accepted - even the Adelaide F1 GP had a pretty tough time of it to start with and a couple of years in.

I started getting passionate about motorsport a few years after the 85AGP and I'm not saying you are lying, I find it hard to believe, though, that this was the case. If there's any evidence of this, please show me. Or if there are a number of older posters that can verify this claim, please do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

I agree with Pecky that street races do take a while to "bed in" and be accepted...It is when these times are ridden through that the event seems to really come of age.

As someone who lives in Melbourne, I'm still waiting for the GP to be accepted. Are you saying, there'll be a point, sometime in the future, the AGP is not going to be an event s*** canned to death by the Melbourne mainstream media and public?

fordo · 19 Feb 2012, 06:13 (Ref:3027838)

The Gold Coast race may still be going but the crowd figures don't match bums on seats and all because of the Rock n Race format. Ask half the people wandering around Surfers with passes who they support and they look at you blankly and say they are only going for the party. Could go belly up shortly with the new rapid rail development cutting across the end of the pit straight and through the hairpin on to the Beach straight.

Tourer · 19 Feb 2012, 06:50 (Ref:3027846)

Quote:

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

I started getting passionate about motorsport a few years after the 85AGP and I'm not saying you are lying, I find it hard to believe, though, that this was the case. If there's any evidence of this, please show me. Or if there are a number of older posters that can verify this claim, please do.

As someone who lives in Melbourne, I'm still waiting for the GP to be accepted. Are you saying, there'll be a point, sometime in the future, the AGP is not going to be an event s*** canned to death by the Melbourne mainstream media and public?

I was there from the first Adelaide GP and to be honest FF1C, I wouldn't be able to lay my hands on any evidence I could show you as of course, all that occurred pre-internet. I do have a strong recollection of not only opposition to the GP in Adelaide (to start with) and also concern about falling attendances in years 2 or 3 or both before the event settled and all started to roll along sweetly.

You're right on the Albert Park GP - it certainly seems to cop a flogging from some quarters and it seems to me that most of it is over the investment required. A V8 race is clearly significantly less investment. I guess when I was talking about "bedding in" over a few years I was referring as much to the crowd numbers stabilising, the event being a known calendar item for people, corporate support etc - in this regard Albert Park has certainly settled down but it does seem that investment in major events (or individuals such as Tiger Woods) does get a lot of negative media in Victoria these days.

fordo · 19 Feb 2012, 07:06 (Ref:3027851)

Light rail in the Surfers Paradise precinct

In the Surfers Paradise precinct, the light rail system will cross the Nerang River on a new specially built bridge and travel along the western side of Gold Coast Highway. The Main Beach Station will be constructed near the intersection with Hill Parade (which leads directly into Tedder Avenue in Main Beach) and then will follow the line of the highway through the area known for hosting the annual motoring racing event.

The light rail will cross the Nerang River again at McIntosh Island South. A small bridge will be constructed to support the light rail traveling through the intersection of Ferny Avenue and the Gold Coast Highway. At this intersection (The first Chicane)the light rail crosses onto the western side of the Surfers Paradise Boulevard (which is part of the track) and continues to the Surfers Paradise North Station just prior to Ocean Avenue.
And this work is due to start in the 2nd half of 2012.

Armco Bender · 19 Feb 2012, 20:54 (Ref:3028095)

Quote:

Key says Whenuapai and Hampton Downs are out of the running.

Pukekohe appears to be infront by a nose.....but one wonders why Taupo isn't in the frame,the government invested a lot of money there for A1GP?

Mr Revhead · 19 Feb 2012, 21:01 (Ref:3028098)

Taupo too far away to work

formerf1champ · 20 Feb 2012, 08:09 (Ref:3028248)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

I was there from the first Adelaide GP and to be honest FF1C, I wouldn't be able to lay my hands on any evidence I could show you as of course, all that occurred pre-internet. I do have a strong recollection of not only opposition to the GP in Adelaide (to start with) and also concern about falling attendances in years 2 or 3 or both before the event settled and all started to roll along sweetly.

Interesting, would not have thought that from what I've come across.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

You're right on the Albert Park GP - it certainly seems to cop a flogging from some quarters and it seems to me that most of it is over the investment required.

That's just an easy out. If the race broke even, or even made a profit, the mainstream media would find some other angle to pick on it. Across the board, there's a nasty edge when the GP is criticised. The only positive is, in recent times, when listening to the radio or reading comments in response to an article, more people (not a lot, but more) have come out to defend it and criticise the criticism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

in this regard Albert Park has certainly settled down but it does seem that investment in major events (or individuals such as Tiger Woods) does get a lot of negative media in Victoria these days.

Golf is a much more accepted sport amongst the Melbourne mainstream media. Any criticism was mild and swept aside regarding Woods. Compared to the GP, Woods's presence was greatly appreciated.

Armco Bender · 20 Feb 2012, 08:39 (Ref:3028262)

Quote:

Taupo too far away to work

Too far away from what?...Bahrain isn't a suburb of Sydney last time I looked.

DX20VT · 20 Feb 2012, 08:52 (Ref:3028273)

Taupo is millions of dollars in debt already, probably cant risk the investment.

Mr Revhead · 20 Feb 2012, 09:12 (Ref:3028281)

Too far away for people to attend. It also lacks enough accommodation.
Bahrain is different. They have mega $$$$

E36ST · 28 Feb 2012, 19:51 (Ref:3032598)

Just browsing the news this morning and it looks like there is some progress to return to Pukekohe:

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/articl...087&fm=psp,tst

New Zealand's leg of the V8 Supercars is back on the cards.

This year's Hamilton 400 will be the last in the city and it was feared it would be the end of New Zealand's involvement in the circuit.

But a deal between the Government, Auckland City Council, Counties Racing and V8 Supercars is in the pipeline.

Supercars Chairman Tony Cochrane has told Radio Sport a return to South Auckland is on the agenda.

He says they've recognised the best chance to get something achieved is at Pukekohe.

Cochrane says they've spent the last month doing detailed engineering studies to get the track safety up to FIA standards.

Goat Boy · 28 Feb 2012, 20:44 (Ref:3032624)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E36ST

Just browsing the news this morning and it looks like there is some progress to return to Pukekohe:

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/articl...087&fm=psp,tst

New Zealand's leg of the V8 Supercars is back on the cards.

This year's Hamilton 400 will be the last in the city and it was feared it would be the end of New Zealand's involvement in the circuit.

But a deal between the Government, Auckland City Council, Counties Racing and V8 Supercars is in the pipeline.

Supercars Chairman Tony Cochrane has told Radio Sport a return to South Auckland is on the agenda.

He says they've recognised the best chance to get something achieved is at Pukekohe.

Cochrane says they've spent the last month doing detailed engineering studies to get the track safety up to FIA standards.

I imagine there would be quite a bit of work involved in that!! Pukekohe was a great circuit once, but the current owners have allowed it to go to rack and ruin - there's been practically no maintenance done on the grounds or facilities, and the old pit structure turned into a dangerous rust bucket. I haven't been out there since HD opened in fact, has the structure been removed yet?

They would need to spend some serious $$ to get it up to scratch. But on the other hand that money would probably be the same as the required ongoing Hamilton spend, but with the benefit that you'd only need to spend it once instead of every year!

AAAANNDDD if they actually built some serious pit facilities there then the V8ST's would come

NZSTfan · 28 Feb 2012, 21:38 (Ref:3032647)

Agree GB, the current Puke is a disgrace to NZ motorsport. Yes i know it has 'history' and stuff, but its also pretty much derelict (sp?). They would surely be looking at a ground up rebuild to get that place looking any good?

If they do go ahead with it then it will be good for Pukekohe as a town, and good for Auckland too. I still feel for our South Island friends though in amoungst all of this. Short of the ST series they get to see nothing of any international standing other than TRS.

My preference would be to get the upgrades done to HD and run it there, but for some reason i dont think thats going to happen, even though i think it is the cheapest option overall.

Rugz · 28 Feb 2012, 21:49 (Ref:3032651)

$6 mill was the number talked to upgrade the track to FIA Cat2, and pit work.
V8SC own (or will soon) all the grandstands and pit buildings(from Hamilton) and are looking for somewhere where they can leave it up, Puke needs new pits.

Rugz · 28 Feb 2012, 22:06 (Ref:3032660)

Found the Interview from this morn http://www.radiosport.co.nz/player/o...r-V8-Supercars

mountainstar · 28 Feb 2012, 22:29 (Ref:3032673)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugz

$6 mill was the number talked to upgrade the track to FIA Cat2, and pit work.
V8SC own (or will soon) all the grandstands and pit buildings(from Hamilton) and are looking for somewhere where they can leave it up, Puke needs new pits.

I was thinking more like $10 million and then you reminded me V8SC had purchased some infrastructure from Hamilton, so if that could be incorporated into the track that would help.