[BTCC] BTCC 2021

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The fast Astra - if it gets production go ahead - will, like the fast Corsa, share it's Peugeot brother's parts bin. So the new 308 in this case. Likely a turbocharged 1.6 petrol with a hybrid gubbins.

I think the closest we have to a verified source comes in the official press release from Vauxhall.

'VAUXHALL CONTINUES TO CHARGE! EIGHT ELECTRIFIED MODELS BY 2021'
In the release, they refer to the following as having electric variants:
Corsa-e, Grandland X Hybrid4.
Vivaro van, Mokka X, Combo, Combo Life, Vivaro Life, an electrified version of the next generation Astra.

So it seems that Vauxhall have confirmed an electric version of the Astra by the end of 2021, but whether this will carry a VXR badge is not mentioned.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think the closest we have to a verified source comes in the official press release from Vauxhall.

'VAUXHALL CONTINUES TO CHARGE! EIGHT ELECTRIFIED MODELS BY 2021'
In the release, they refer to the following as having electric variants:
Corsa-e, Grandland X Hybrid4.
Vivaro van, Mokka X, Combo, Combo Life, Vivaro Life, an electrified version of the next generation Astra.

So it seems that Vauxhall have confirmed an electric version of the Astra by the end of 2021, but whether this will carry a VXR badge is not mentioned.

Electrified does not equal electric. Most likely a 48v mild-hybrid introduced on the current generation. The next gen will probably move to the same platform as the new C4, which is available in electric and ICE variants.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I also believe the electric MG estate for sale in the UK story to be ********.

The launch is expected any day now - https://mg.co.uk/mg5-ev/

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

...estate cars simply don't sell to family buyers anymore - they mostly buy SUV tanks.

This is as depressing as it is true. Spend more, get less.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The market is not anywhere near to being at a volume where the likes of VW, PSA, Ford can sell an electric estate and turn a profit.

I suspect they aren't making much profit on any types of estate given the low numbers they sell.

Mr Chinaman's tiny market share would certainly not return a margin.

MG is selling a decent number of cars in the UK - nearly 10,000 so far this year.
That puts it ahead of Lexus, in the same band as Suzuki and Dacia, and not far away from overtaking Mazda and Citroen.

Guess we'll see - but estate cars simply don't sell to family buyers anymore - they mostly buy SUV tanks. Sales reps tool around in estates, but they need diesel.

Sales of diesels have fallen by a third in the first half of this year, and now only account for 18% of the UK market.

Hybrids are not far behind that, and even fully electric cars have a >4% market share.

[Pringles]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The fast Astra - if it gets production go ahead - will, like the fast Corsa, share it's Peugeot brother's parts bin. So the new 308 in this case. Likely a turbocharged 1.6 petrol with a hybrid gubbins.

Unfortunately the linked articles are typical "Auto Express" style mock up a new car that isn't announced and pad out with any legit sounding reference you can find. Or failing that, invent it. I used to write some of this rubbish in a past life.

I also believe the electric MG estate for sale in the UK story to be ********. The market is not anywhere near to being at a volume where the likes of VW, PSA, Ford can sell an electric estate and turn a profit. Mr Chinaman's tiny market share would certainly not return a margin. Guess we'll see - but estate cars simply don't sell to family buyers anymore - they mostly buy SUV tanks. Sales reps tool around in estates, but they need diesel.

I'd suggest you are incorrect about the MG 5 full EV Estate car. It is due out imminently this year. It's also on MG website for registering interest for it. Plans may have been delayed a bit because of COVID but it really seems the main focus for MG is mostly electric cars now and a few hybrids to appear in the meantime. Hybrid HS will be out fairly soon as well. The ZS EV has been on sale a while now as well.

The one thing they really missed a trick a on was a fully electric MG 3, which I expect will be on the cards if the all new MG3 for 2022 materialises.

Plus there is still plenty of talk of the electric E Motion making it to production hopefully fairly soon.

Sadly at present there is no suitable MG model that would be eligible for the BTCC.

[S griffin]

It would be good to see VXR back and for me it would be reward to PMR to get that backing. In my view Vauxhall should be proud of how PMR have given success back to the brand with more than a few wins the past couple of seasons

[medius]

I can see Jason look into being more involved in the management side of PMR. He's stated on record in recent years he enjoys the wheeling and deal making part of motorsport as much or more than racing now he's older. Couple that with Adam weavers desire to bring through young talent and maybe JP is the next Mark Blundell in terms of being a career manager?

[thetool]

I think Plato will really fancy another serious attempt at the title before retiring. Towards the end of 2019 he was right back on the pace again.

[Matt K]

Maybe he'll give himself a year or two and then (depending on how he fares) he may decide to retire and focus on a more managerial role. With regards to that, I'm all for it. Like JP or not, he's got a great marketability, he can potentially attract some backing from sponsors/manufacturers and so on. So yes, hopefully he'll be another Mark Blundell in this regard.

[Sodemo]

I guess it makes sense from a marketing standpoint to tie in a hybrid road car with the BTCC hybrid tech. One thing that they should consider is running a sleeker model. I know they are tied to a UK model for sale, but they need to look at something A3 saloon shaped as I think the Astra hatchback is too squat and stumpy and appears to have the aerodynamic efficiency of a brick. Are they still struggling for straight line speed as of end of 2019?

[Matt K]

Apart from Astra the only option would be to bring Insignia back. Aerodynamics of this car look better than that of Astra, the question is with Insignia being even longer than a Beemer, isn't it simply too long?

[VXDave]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Apart from Astra the only option would be to bring Insignia back. Aerodynamics of this car look better than that of Astra, the question is with Insignia being even longer than a Beemer, isn't it simply too long?

I would agree that it's likely to be too big for the tight, twisty uk circuits. The latest insignia is even bigger than the last and dwarfs a 3 series. I think the 3 series and Infinity just about get away with being big because they are RWD which punches them out of tight bends and helps change of direction. An FWD car of that size would likely struggle with change of direction and exiting hairpins. I seem to recall that even when the CC was a front runner, it was better suited to the fast, flowing circuits...

[S griffin]

I always thought the Insignia looked quite long, looked like something you’d see try and break the land speed record

[Alfisti]

Insignia is simply too big. It would be a nightmare at, for example, Knockhill. Long straight bits yes, the aero is good, but I cannot see a car of that length making sense. I don't know where Tony Gilham's future plans have gotten too, but I don't see him replacing the CC's with their current VW equivalent the Arteon. It's another big beast like the Insignia. Perfect for soaking up motorway miles on cruise control in supreme comfort.

[Sodemo]

They need the Astra Saloon, but its not available in the UK, which I find an odd decision as its got a similar shape profile to the UK Civic and the i30 fastback, yet Vauxhall don't deem it as a desirable addition to their car roster?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

They need the Astra Saloon, but its not available in the UK, which I find an odd decision as its got a similar shape profile to the UK Civic and the i30 fastback, yet Vauxhall don't deem it as a desirable addition to their car roster?

Outside of the executive market, Saloon sales in the UK are continunig to decline:

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Outside of the executive market, Saloon sales in the UK are continunig to decline:

Its odd though that in Europe, I generally see far more saloons, whenever I have been to Italy or Spain, they seem to get saloon versions of cars we don't get in the UK...?

One thing is certain is that the saloon shape is more efficient at cutting through the air, so if that is the case, then all road going electric cars should be of a saloon shape too, if efficiency and green credentials are important for the public and car makers.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Its odd though that in Europe, I generally see far more saloons, whenever I have been to Italy or Spain, they seem to get saloon versions of cars we don't get in the UK...?

One thing is certain is that the saloon shape is more efficient at cutting through the air, so if that is the case, then all road going electric cars should be of a saloon shape too, if efficiency and green credentials are important for the public and car makers.

Because we don't buy (or company car lease) saloons apart from the 3 Series, C Class etc. The sectors below are all hatchback dominated. Europe is a different kettle of fish.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Because we don't buy (or company car lease) saloons apart from the 3 Series, C Class etc. The sectors below are all hatchback dominated. Europe is a different kettle of fish.

This isn’t something I’ve ever understood. What’s so different about Europe which means they still buy saloons?

[Moneyseeker]

Slightly OT, but owning a self charging hybrid that I am about to change for a new petrol car in September, I am a bit unconvinced by the technology. I have an SUV style car and I have found that by dragging round a load of batteries and electric motor that then reduces the size of the fuel tank, you are left with a car with no range.

I filled it up recently and despite having done only two relatively short journeys - 80 miles each - it now tells me I have 335 miles of petrol left.

Fortunately I don't do many miles per in it, if I did it would drive me mad having to constantly stop and top up the fuel.

By contrast, we have just bought a new Citroen Berlingo turbo diesel, 8 speed auto - I am getting 64mpg and you can literally fill it up and forget it - I have done two reasonable size trips in it and still have 600 miles of fuel left!

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Slightly OT, but owning a self charging hybrid that I am about to change for a new petrol car in September, I am a bit unconvinced by the technology. I have an SUV style car and I have found that by dragging round a load of batteries and electric motor that then reduces the size of the fuel tank, you are left with a car with no range.

I filled it up recently and despite having done only two relatively short journeys - 80 miles each - it now tells me I have 335 miles of petrol left.

Fortunately I don't do many miles per in it, if I did it would drive me mad having to constantly stop and top up the fuel.

By contrast, we have just bought a new Citroen Berlingo turbo diesel, 8 speed auto - I am getting 64mpg and you can literally fill it up and forget it - I have done two reasonable size trips in it and still have 600 miles of fuel left!

You need to get a car that gives you smiles per mile and don't worry about how often you have to refill it.
My car has a smaller tank than my previous similar car, the extra space taken up by a trick AWD system. The grin just never stops.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Slightly OT, but owning a self charging hybrid that I am about to change for a new petrol car in September, I am a bit unconvinced by the technology. I have an SUV style car and I have found that by dragging round a load of batteries and electric motor that then reduces the size of the fuel tank, you are left with a car with no range.

I filled it up recently and despite having done only two relatively short journeys - 80 miles each - it now tells me I have 335 miles of petrol left.

Fortunately I don't do many miles per in it, if I did it would drive me mad having to constantly stop and top up the fuel.

By contrast, we have just bought a new Citroen Berlingo turbo diesel, 8 speed auto - I am getting 64mpg and you can literally fill it up and forget it - I have done two reasonable size trips in it and still have 600 miles of fuel left!

If your typical journeys suit it, plug-in hybrids can be a absolute winner. Mine does over 40 miles on a charge. In the last 3 weeks I have done 315 miles, of which only 20 were on petrol power. When I am back to working in the office, my commuting costs will drop from £7/day to £1/day.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by antnee

If your typical journeys suit it, plug-in hybrids can be a absolute winner. Mine does over 40 miles on a charge. In the last 3 weeks I have done 315 miles, of which only 20 were on petrol power. When I am back to working in the office, my commuting costs will drop from £7/day to £1/day.

My journeys in the hybrid tend to be longish a road, dual carriageway stuff - no town or city driving - hence my feeling that by dragging around all the unproductive weight is not idea. I am buying a 1.4L turbo petrol with stop start, I reckon I will get more or less the same MPG as I am getting with the hybrid and the stop start will do a similar thing to the hybrid when stopped a traffic lights, junctions.

Time will tell!

[Adam43]

Obviously depends if it is just a model year, a facelift or a new generation. Seamless gaps in sales can be achieved by building up stock before new generation production starts. I’ve seen quick turn around and not so quick. New and old generations are practically never produced in the same factory at the same time. Of course globally there may be one factory building the old one longer than a sister factory in another continent, but it isn’t normal for supply to mean that a market receives the same car from more than one continent, although it does happen.