Stock Hatch Rules

[HrRACING]

This season was my first in rallycross, and compeated in stockhatch.

At a few events I was questioned about things on the car during scruit because they are trying to make stockhatch as fair as possible. Fair enough. Both times I was in the right according to the rules, and it was about silly things anyway that would give no performance advantage. I was asked at one meeting if stockhatches were allowed a sheet of metal in the drivers footwell, and have also been told that a bit much of my dash is cut off...how else do I get the cage front uprights down the pillar?

I have looked closly at cars in the paddock, and some people have stud conversions on their 205's. I will ignor that because its not performance enhancing, although i'm not going to do it because its not in the rules, I can see why people do. (so will anyone else who has to put 205 wheels on all the time!!)

Anyway, i'm not naming names, but I think lots of people will have noticed this. There is one car in stockhatch car that has a bias ajuster for the brakes right by the seat so it can be used by the driver during a race. This car also has ajustable stut platforms!!!...and the battery is in the passenger footwell, so the car will have better weight distro! And thats just from a quick glance in the paddock.

I would accept a few things, and if it was someone new to the sport maybe they would not know, but it is clearly stated in the rules. However, these are major items on a car run by somebody who should know better!

But its a tricky situation. I dont want to go repeorting peoples cars, thats not how you make friends, although if the majority of us spend time getting our cars as legal as possible, why the hell should we bother only for someone to clearly ignor the rules for whatever reason.


Rant over...

[leonidas]

I know how you feel. Sadly some people will always take the view that 'its not illegal if you don't get caught'. Usually best to deal with these things with an informal word but if someone is seriously taking the proverbial...

Its important to cut the scrutineers some slack sometimes though - its not an easy job and not one I'd want to do.

[oi_oi_savaloy]

This is a tricky situation. I admire your honesty and integrity but others, if they saw something remiss with your car, wouldn't give it a moment's thought before reporting you.

Especially if you had beaten them in a race.

There's so much I would have liked to have done to my car as we were building it but couldn't due to the restraints of the rules (like moving the battery for example); I'm not a great fan of seeing things like that in other cars when you've stuck to the rules yourself.

Minor stuff is no big deal, as you say, but when they've blatantly moved something that shouldn't be moved then perhaps one should report it.
Good luck.

[sihorton]

I personally think that the battery should be moved into the passenger foot well anyway rather than having it under the bonnet with the fuel tank.

Seems to have been something that scrutineers have mentioned at nearly every event. I wouldn't mind, but my tank and battery are at opposite ends of the engine bay!

I think this year the majority of cars in the class seemed above board to me, but maybe i wasn't really keeping my eye out.
You will always get satisfaction if you beat who ever u think is running illegal with your legal car.

si

[richorton]

Originally Posted by sihorton

I personally think that the battery should be moved into the passenger foot well anyway rather than having it under the bonnet with the fuel tank.

Seems to have been something that scrutineers have mentioned at nearly every event. I wouldn't mind, but my tank and battery are at opposite ends of the engine bay!

I think this year the majority of cars in the class seemed above board to me, but maybe i wasn't really keeping my eye out.
You will always get satisfaction if you beat who ever u think is running illegal with your legal car.

si

I must have great satisfaction as i beat you And my car is standard

[HrRACING]

Originally Posted by sihorton

I personally think that the battery should be moved into the passenger foot well anyway rather than having it under the bonnet with the fuel tank.

Seems to have been something that scrutineers have mentioned at nearly every event. I wouldn't mind, but my tank and battery are at opposite ends of the engine bay!

I agree that the battery should be inside the car Si, but my point is that its not in the rules!

I do feel for the scriuteneers, its not a nice job, although they do choose to do it, AND my point is that they have picked things up on my car that they feel needs checking... fair enough... but missed bloody obvious things on other cars. A problem may be that if they are not rallycross specific then they may not know the rules inside out, but I thought the above where major illegal parts!

[sihorton]

Originally Posted by richorton

I must have great satisfaction as i beat you And my car is standard

I know it's standard, i re-built it after blyton! (can you feel that love in the team )

I think the bottom line is that 2005 was a very close year in stockhatch and i think this can only be good for the class and gives a good indication of what is to come in 2006. It has also shown that drivers from the 2004 season have now pushed up towards the top of the chamionship this season along with some with some excellent suprise new drivers (brown & graves) and also some nicely prepaired new cars (armstrong, chicken & ridge spring to mind).

2005 also brough some new drivers come into the series that i think will benefit from this year exceperiance and come back even stronger for next year.

si

[sihorton]

Originally Posted by HrRACING

A problem may be that if they are not rallycross specific then they may not know the rules inside out, but I thought the above where major illegal parts!

I do think this is a point about knowing the rules of the sport, and yes i do agree that these are illegal parts. (sorry got a little side tracked on my last post.

si

[Pug620]

Hey you want to check for cam timing i reported some one for having it adjusted but nothing done (and they told me they had done this)

So the cars sold and when i do come back i will be in a modified so as its a level playing feild except how big the cheque book is!!!

Only way to sort this out is rolling road all the cars and then seal them this stops people rebuilding engines after every race and if some one has high power for that car strip it and find out why ?

Unless this was carryed out i would not return to this class.

And it would be good if some of the panel bashing was reduced a little.

[Spunky Munky]

i think i know the car you are on about Hal!
The team should know better, most other people have managed to fit a battery and fuel tank under the bonnet of a Saxo!!(oops, have i given too much away!)
The scrutineers only check the car for safety, there is supposed to be an eligibility scrutineer for the class regs. Dont know who the Stockhatch one is now. I no that someone who used to be 1 knew of a few illegal 205's, mentioned it to the BRDA, and they did nothing!!
Think cheating is part of it unfotunately.
You can break the cam pulley on a 205 so the the locating pin is missing and adjust your cam timing, not really againt te rules as such. The rules say that you arent allowed to use an adjustable VERNIER pulley. You would still be using a standard one!!
Also, i noticed last year that some of the cars did smell nice from behind! Has anyone ever done a fuel check on them?
One Stockhatch car broke a driveshaft last year, and still drove into the paddock!! How can you do that with a standard diff?!

[rallycrosscraig]

I am also planning some mods for my stockhatch 205 over the winter:

Starting with an lsd, at the same time I am going to get a 6 speed sequential box, fit the battery in the boot along with my new nitros kit and I've found a way to hide the resevoirs for my proflex dampers in the glove box.

see you at the front of the grid at Lydden, april 2006 !!

[rallycrosscraig]

oi oi savaloy I am in Teddington, only 5 mins from Hampton.

[206180]

Originally Posted by Spunky Munky

most other people have managed to fit a battery and fuel tank under the bonnet

Where does it say battery and fuel tank need to be under the bonnet ???

The only way to sort out an illegal car is to protest it ie put your money where your mouth is, if it is illegal you get your protest money back.

[HrRACING]

The regs say that the battery must remain in the original postition, and that the fuel tank must be foam filled and under the bonnet, if not using a standard fuel tank for that car.

[206180]

Originally Posted by HrRACING

The regs say that the battery must remain in the original postition, and that the fuel tank must be foam filled and under the bonnet, if not using a standard fuel tank for that car.

That told me then.
So my Fia FT3 bag tank is no good cos that wont fit under the bonnet !!!!

[oi_oi_savaloy]

Rallycrosscraig - we should meet for beer then! My car is kept in Anglesey (long, long story) but I'd like to see your car.

Maybe next week - I'm racing at Anglesey this weekend but I'm back in London on Tues.

[Pug620]

Right now time to get this sorted

If you break a keyway and run your cam timing like this then it is illegal as i heard about this and knew that this would give a advantage if set up correctly so before i spent 1/2 day at the rolling road setting my car up i asked the BRDA to confirm that this was legal and to confirm this in writing as i didn't want to spend that amount oif money only to be illegal and have to remove it so for all you people currently running like this and you Know who you are YOU ARE CHEATS

Also as for fuel look around the pits and people blantantly leave fuel additive cans around in their pit trucks and dont even try to hide it so i guess every one is running a speacial mix!

Suspension the rules are written to get upgraded suspension not platform adjustibles with a tiny weld on them that goes against the genral sportsman ship of the rules but who enforces them ?

As for the Battery rules it does state in the orginal location and as for lighting of cars how many cars have pannels cut out or drilled with 2" hole to lose weight ?

Until the Rules are enforced every one will push until they get stopped as some people run LSD diffs but know one checks so why not.

As I have said i will not return to stockhatch as i DO NOT WANT TO CHEAT!

Rant over

[oi_oi_savaloy]

What's a Keyway?

[Roundy Mooney]

Its just a small protrution from on the end of the camshaft which locks the camshaft pulley in the corect postion when you push the pulley on , keeping the timing correct.

[sihorton]

If people have removed it, then how do you stop the pulley from slipping round under load and loosing its timing position??
If cam timing slips out of sync with the bottom end it could really wreck the engine. I know thats a risk i certainly would not take!

[bucko]

you can get offset keys you can get them for minis ??? not that i do stock hatch or know the rules so does that make it illegal or even if you machine the standard key with an offset ie a step in the key but then how do you stop blue printing i had this when i circiut raced in mighty minis they where surposed to be as standard !!!! front ones where not standard thats for sure , dam hard to legislate , no matter what sport you do someone will bend the rules , unfortunatly sometimes you have to grin and bear it unless you want to put ya money on the line , my self i go along on the lines that if you beat them ( when you do cause sooner or later you will ) who will have the biggest grin !!!!!!!!!

[Spunky Munky]

i must at this point make it aware that during my 4 seasons in Stockhatch, my car was never illegal and always played buy the rules, other than fuel additive, but i didnt classs that as cheating as every one else did it!

[HrRACING]

Thats the problem Asa, there are quiet a few other us who play by the rules, and others that just take the ****.

I for one think we should have elligibility scruits for each class next at every event...in fact...

[Pug620]

In Fact what????? go on tell us the suspense is killing me!!

You can lock the pully on to the shaft with a speacial loctite compound without fitting the keyway (i did check all this out before speaking with the BRDA as they said it could not be done )

If all cars were put on the rollers and then sealed and the top power cars striped and inspected of each type then it would stop some of the rule bending but in four years of me racing i never got my car inspected or checked.

Referance the above check after talking to a guy at our machine shop he sugested that he could weld and remachine the keyway on the sproket and you would not be able to tell unless you measured it, so if they have been on the rollers then you would see a diffrent power curve which would make you look for a reason.

Even just simple things like checking for a LSD which some people have been running would not take a great effort to check ?

Just look at the Pug 205 rally challenge they check all the cars and usally its talent (and luck) that creates a winner as its all a level playing field.

Come on RSS and BRDA get it together with the rules and you could have meetings were you are turning away racers due to no space like a few years ago!!

Marty

[chris cake]

Have you Got Any Proof That Lsd's Have Been Used This Year?
The Three Years I Raced In Stocks Cars Were Check Often , I Was Sealed Several Times And Striped And Was Found Ok.
This Was Was Carried Out On The Front Runners!
The Idea Of Rolling Roading Cars Was Talked About years Ago But The Cost Would Be Down To The Driver And That Was Then Forgoten About .

Also
If Someone Wins Or Is Close To The Front Wingin He Must Be Cheating (and The Car Looks Legal ) Maybe Its A Good Driver Working The Pedals.