LMS Round 1 - HTTT Paul Ricard - 2/3 April 2011 - Page 4

gwyllion · 1 Apr 2011, 12:31 (Ref:2856801)

Detailed timing information from the first test is online at http://www.lemans-series.com/fr/s52_...=19&annee=2011

Open http://www.lemans-series.com/fr/s52_...&id_circuit=19 and be amazed. The top speed of Johny Kane in the HPD was the slowest of the whole field and almost 20 km/h less than the Nissan powered Zytek: 261.5 km/h vs 280.5 km/h.

Something is seriously wrong with the current LMP2 engine rules

Deleted · 1 Apr 2011, 12:42 (Ref:2856807)

ACO didn't like what HPD did last year?

Something is seriously wrong with LMP2 in general. You have potentially two sub categories in it, reliability in general doesn't look that great -once again- and FLM & GT2 have the same straight line speed! It's kinda lame if you can only gain seconds when under braking...

dj choc ice · 1 Apr 2011, 12:47 (Ref:2856808)

Looks to be a good close race at the moment in LMP1. It's interesting to note what DSC have said about the 458's all sounding very different to one another. I'm assuming some teams are running stricter silencers than others and possibly the quieter more restrictive exhausts are strangling the performance of those cars a little bit? or, is that just a ridiculous longshot?

Also surprised at the HPD's lack of straight line grunt, won't surprise me to see RML and Strakka lobbying for a bigger air restrictor if they still lack straight line go come spa or race day at Ricard.

AGD · 1 Apr 2011, 13:14 (Ref:2856824)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

Dunlops. No Pirellis in the Series now, and just the one Hankook. The rest a fairly even spread of Michelin and Dunlop.

I assume the RLR MG to be on Dunlops, but the DSC entry list has them on Pirellis. Odd. They tested on Dunlops I believe a few weeks ago. The Guess Racing LMP1 Lola Mazda, which was withdrawn for this week, will be on Coopers supposedly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

Also surprised at the HPD's lack of straight line grunt, won't surprise me to see RML and Strakka lobbying for a bigger air restrictor if they still lack straight line go come spa or race day at Ricard.

It probably should not be a surprise at this point given RML's pathetic speed at the open test at Ricard and the pathetic pace of the Lola-HPDs at Sebring. It certainly does seem that the ACO predicted a HPD romp this year and has decided to preemptively neuter them. Either that or they want Oreca to win and/or Nissan to make a big investment. Either way, they need to make a correction. I'm sure we can all agree that Honda's new engine is not nearly as pathetic as the result sheets say they are and I don't think they are sandbagging that much. The ACO needs to fix that farce ASAP.

gustavobamba · 1 Apr 2011, 13:24 (Ref:2856831)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGD

I assume the RLR MG to be on Dunlops, but the DSC entry list has them on Pirellis. Odd. They tested on Dunlops I believe a few weeks ago. The Guess Racing LMP1 Lola Mazda, which was withdrawn for this week, will be on Coopers supposedly.

It probably should not be a surprise at this point given RML's pathetic speed at the open test at Ricard and the pathetic pace of the Lola-HPDs at Sebring. It certainly does seem that the ACO predicted a HPD romp this year and has decided to preemptively neuter them. Either that or they want Oreca to win and/or Nissan to make a big investment. Either way, they need to make a correction. I'm sure we can all agree that Honda's new engine is not nearly as pathetic as the result sheets say they are and I don't think they are sandbagging that much. The ACO needs to fix that farce ASAP.

I fully agree

gwyllion · 1 Apr 2011, 14:37 (Ref:2856874)

The second practice is on. Did anyone hear on RLM whether Aston Martin is ready to do some laps?

courageous · 1 Apr 2011, 14:50 (Ref:2856879)

They are really talking down expectations on the Aston - suggesting it will be neither quick nor reliable this weekend

Deleted · 1 Apr 2011, 15:09 (Ref:2856887)

The new Aston has just done (at least) one installation lap.

And amateur-class F430 running away from HPD-powered car on the straight!

AGD · 1 Apr 2011, 15:10 (Ref:2856889)

The Norma is faster than either ARX-01d right now for crying out loud!

Tom908V12 · 1 Apr 2011, 17:26 (Ref:2856964)

Start of engine fire on the AMR ONE would be the reason of why only one lap

Livininthinair · 1 Apr 2011, 18:06 (Ref:2856982)

Engine fire? anyone know how bad damage is, not much time for repairs + wonder how many spares are avail...

gwyllion · 1 Apr 2011, 18:16 (Ref:2856991)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

Start of engine fire on the AMR ONE would be the reason of why only one lap

Where did you this? According speedtv.com the car had a misfire.

Livininthinair · 1 Apr 2011, 18:24 (Ref:2856997)

"miss" fire way better than "engine" fire - I hope they get it together...
I am hoping that thing is quick, but I guess we shall see...

dj choc ice · 1 Apr 2011, 18:49 (Ref:2857011)

Not good if the Aston is having problems after one installation lap. Perhaps Aston have bought the car out to play too early? it's not boding well at the moment that's for sure. Also, according to the HPD thread, RML and Strakka are currently meeting with the ACO about their total lack of straight line speed. For a constructor that has always prided itself on it's engineering prowess when it comes to engines, Honda must be feeling a bit red faced. Either they have built a crock of an engine or it's just been hit very hard by the regs being a turbo engine.

Also, anyone got any links to some pictures from practise or the pit garages/paddock? it would be interesting to see some of the new cars in the hands of new teams in their new war paint.

lmpracer · 1 Apr 2011, 19:15 (Ref:2857023)

I don't think it will make any difference what they say to the ACO, they should have chosen wisely on engine spec like the others. It was only last year that HPD were miles quicker than the rest but i didn't hear anyone else moaning about the regs then. As i understand the HPD engine and Nissan are closely matched for power output.

gwyllion · 1 Apr 2011, 19:32 (Ref:2857033)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmpracer

As i understand the HPD engine and Nissan are closely matched for power output.

Totally untrue. The HPD powered cars are more than 10 km/h than the other LMP2s, which clearly proves that they are down on power. They are slower through all sectors of the tracks, so they are not running with more downforce than the others either.

tonypowe · 1 Apr 2011, 19:48 (Ref:2857046)

Most definitely strange to see Strakka so far down the order, and Norma up towards the front! Is there any sandbagging going on or do we think the HPD has been strangled by the regs? From the posts so far it seems the latter.
Disappointing the Aston can only just about manage a lap, lets hope tomorrow is a better day for them.
Big smiles for a Pesca entry back on track.

AGD · 1 Apr 2011, 19:59 (Ref:2857051)

There is some speculation that the RML and Strakka cars are carrying more downforce than necessary (debatable I guess), but I don't think that accounts for all or even most of the speed difference given what we saw with the HPDs at Sebring.

I have a hard time believing that the HPD engine is a dud. Anything is possible I guess, but I think the regs are hurting the engine significantly. That seems to be the consensus opinion even amongst the experts.

Simmi · 1 Apr 2011, 19:59 (Ref:2857052)

HPD definitely not sandbagging. RLM guys described that a Ferrari F430 accelerated away from one down the main straight.

Livininthinair · 1 Apr 2011, 20:15 (Ref:2857061)

Gearing and downforce could be playing a part, I wouldnt think total power output could be that much different...

littleman · 1 Apr 2011, 20:23 (Ref:2857064)

I've just finished talking to my man with one of the HPD LMP2 teams and they're definitely not sandbagging - they're downright distraught! I can't quote what he said about their straightline speed...........! Lets just say it isn't slow, its absolutely pathetic.He probably thinks his road car is faster!

Livininthinair · 1 Apr 2011, 20:27 (Ref:2857066)

Is your contact thinking boost pressure is the issue? I had high hopes for that engine when they first started talking about it last year. You would think HPD would not have any issues, must be regulations not physical engine spec.

AGD · 1 Apr 2011, 20:30 (Ref:2857068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleman

I've just finished talking to my man with one of the HPD LMP2 teams and they're definitely not sandbagging - they're downright distraught! I can't quote what he said about their straightline speed...........! Lets just say it isn't slow, its absolutely pathetic.He probably thinks his road car is faster!

I'm assuming the crew guy is blaming the regs? Or does he think the engine is a bad design?

If it is the regs, the ACO needs to get out of the racing justice mindset and just create equalized regulations. Maybe the regs are just too much against turbo engines right now? I wonder how bad off the Roush Ford EcoBoost engine would be with these regs.

Victor_RO · 1 Apr 2011, 20:33 (Ref:2857070)

I'm quoting gwyllion's post from the HPD thread, because it's probably a good explanation of what exact element of the regulations has strangled the HPD engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I had a look at the restrictor/boost table in the LMP2 rules and compared it with the GTE rules. It is obvious that something is wrong.

In LMP2 not cost capped the air restrictor size and maximum boost pressure are:

3600 cc NA: 2 x 28.9 mm (e.g., Judd/BMW V8)
4500 cc NA: 2 x 27.6 mm (e.g., Nissan V8)
2800 cc turbo: 2 x 27.6 mm, 1950 mbar boost (e.g., HPD V6)

In GTE the same engine configurations would get the following restrictor and boost:

3600 cc NA: 2 x 28.9 mm
4500 cc NA: 2 x 28.3 mm
2800 cc turbo: 2 x 27.7 mm, 2400 mbar boost

In LMP2 and GTE all engines are supposed to produce similar power levels. However, under the GTE rules the HPD engine would be allowed to run 450 mbar extra boost!

Percentage-wise, that's almost a 20% cut in allowed boost pressure.

Livininthinair · 1 Apr 2011, 20:38 (Ref:2857073)

That spec. seems odd + what GTE turbo engine would they be taking about, or is this as a (just in case) situation. The Level 5 cars struggled at Sebring but seemed to get faster as time went on and (seemed) to be reliable enough to make it 12 hours without too much drama - for a new engine that is. These guys have yet to qualify and are already worried...

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