V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[on_to_it]

Thank you, and that all makes sense. I have watched this class closely and I would agree with you. I know a lot of the NZ drivers who have run in this series over the years and there have certainly been issues with respect to it being a level playing field. The other problem (for those of us who don't have deep pockets) is that you need to pay the top team mega (and there's only really one) if you want to be competitive. And that knocks out a lot of talent.

The NZST business model is totally different to TRS. Aside from the obvious parity with the cars (which many people seem to dislike), they should be easier to engineer as there doesn't seem to be anything really tricky about them. Just the usual camber and toe, shock settings, ride height, TP's etc.

[GizzFan]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Thank you, and that all makes sense. I have watched this class closely and I would agree with you. I know a lot of the NZ drivers who have run in this series over the years and there have certainly been issues with respect to it being a level playing field. The other problem (for those of us who don't have deep pockets) is that you need to pay the top team mega (and there's only really one) if you want to be competitive. And that knocks out a lot of talent.

The NZST business model is totally different to TRS. Aside from the obvious parity with the cars (which many people seem to dislike), they should be easier to engineer as there doesn't seem to be anything really tricky about them. Just the usual camber and toe, shock settings, ride height, TP's etc.

No worries on that front, Mr Petch used to own three of them and lost a bundle on them when he quit them back to Mr Ecleston. My mate worked on the one he lent to the Orr family for nix so he reakoned, so im sure ST's MD wont be making Bernies mistakes. Apparantly the Orrs could bought it real cheap but they reackon they got stiffed, because Bazz was giving totally free deals to his stars, because they had no money, whilst the likes of the Orrs had to pay every cent it cost, like 5 grand for a new nose cone!!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Thank you, and that all makes sense. I have watched this class closely and I would agree with you. I know a lot of the NZ drivers who have run in this series over the years and there have certainly been issues with respect to it being a level playing field. The other problem (for those of us who don't have deep pockets) is that you need to pay the top team mega (and there's only really one) if you want to be competitive. And that knocks out a lot of talent.

The NZST business model is totally different to TRS. Aside from the obvious parity with the cars (which many people seem to dislike), they should be easier to engineer as there doesn't seem to be anything really tricky about them. Just the usual camber and toe, shock settings, ride height, TP's etc.

I don't think there is realistically ever a "level playing field". Doesn't matter the sport, you can give people the exact piece of equipment and people will think of a thousand different ways to use it.

You can sell everyone the exact same equipment and there will always be a mechanical engineering guru that can make it work better than anyone or a driver that can figure out how to make that car work for them better than anyone.

I think if one is going to start a series from scratch I'd say:

1. Have a car that looks good, sounds good and that fans will enjoy watching.
2. Make the car simple and designed as such so it is simple to work on and fix.
3. Have a car that is a challenge to drivers, yet enjoyable to drive.
4. Standardize parts that have no relevance to the actual racing to keep costs down(safety equipment, electronics, etc.) and open up other aspects of the car that are relevant to fans and the actual racing(engines, tires, body kits, etc).

TRS I think has been reasonably successful, it certainly gave a chance for some talent to shine. I think they'll have to figure out soon what their next step is going to be.

NZST I think has done a good job in a lot of areas. Probably the main thing I would have liked to have seen is an option for a Ford related engine.

[on_to_it]

I meant this - A level playing field is about fairness, where everyone plays by the same set of rules with equal equipment, not that each player has an equal chance to succeed (because each driver/engineer combo has different skill sets). How can you be sure of having equal equipment when someone with a lap-top comes along, has a twiddle with your engine management software, you have no idea what they're doing (and they won't tell you), and then your car runs differently!

Anyway, that's a minor point of difference. I agree with you except for point 4.
If you open up engines, tyres and body kits, it easily becomes cheque book racing, and that's exactly what NZST are setting out to avoid.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

The first two seasons of TRS had an oversubscription of drivers and an undersupply of cars.
Despite the fact that you could (can) only use the car at official TRS days interest in the class was healthy.
People invested in cars thinking this was a win win partnership.
Increasingly greater numbers of chassis' were poured into the mix with the result that despite there being around 30 - 35 chassis availible to race the last few years they have struggled to field 12 cars (intl series) and 8 cars (domestic series)

Suggestions from teams as to how to make the cost of running cars more affordable have been largely ignored by an inconsistant sel- interested series manager.

By the 4th season, none of the teams that were involved at the beginning were still involved and the cars are worthless.
Primarily because you can't own an engine and use the car car however you please. (You could fit an engine and use it but ther regs state you would never be allowed to be involved with the series again in any way, and neither would that car)

Allegations of preferential treatment were never addressed satisfactorally, both performance and financially.

TRS was a class that arrived with enormous promise and quickly turned into a damp squib. It fostered some brilliant talent and produced some epic battles but is currently focussed on international money to prop it up. It is a failure of management.

Thats why I think ST management will be analysing where TRS failed

domestically TRS has suffered from the TIN TOP mentality and V8supercars or bust approach;
I would love someone to tell me how Swift sport as a feeder class would teach a driver more than vees and f/fords technically,there's a lot of average drivers starting to come thru.

some of you will be very surprised when the line up for January is announced on monday for TRS.

Really now only serious Kiwi racers will try TRS especially if their adviser's have half a clue.

BTW there are 26 TRS cars in NZ including the test car.

[GizzFan]

Originally Posted by harcey

domestically TRS has suffered from the TIN TOP mentality and V8supercars or bust approach;
I would love someone to tell me how Swift sport as a feeder class would teach a driver more than vees and f/fords technically,there's a lot of average drivers starting to come thru.

some of you will be very surprised when the line up for January is announced on monday for TRS.

Really now only serious Kiwi racers will try TRS especially if their adviser's have half a clue.

BTW there are 26 TRS cars in NZ including the test car.

Seems we need another thread for the TRS debate! TRS survives because Toymotors bank rolls it. Fact is spectators and sponsors just aint interested lets face it.

Back on thread, for sure ST is a very different beast.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by GizzFan

Seems we need another thread for the TRS debate! TRS survives because Toymotors bank rolls it.

there isnt a driver in V8ST who cant afford to be or who isnt being bankrolled.about half of the proposed field are chequebook entries of dubious real talent.,nothing changes-there will be 2 performance groups quite away apart.

[GizzFan]

Originally Posted by harcey

there isnt a driver in V8ST who cant afford to be or who isnt being bankrolled.about half of the proposed field are chequebook entries of dubious real talent.,nothing changes-there will be 2 performance groups quite away apart.

You could say that about every form of sport that requires the purchase of expensive equipement. One things for sure out of the 15 drivers already announced i dont see any Ross Cameron's on board, and if there is a division of the pack it will be well down past the top ten.

Hey I just checked out V8ST revamped website, way cool, even got a time clock counting down to the first event! www.v8supertourers.co.nz

[Goat Boy]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, only 10 cars on the NZV8 grid this weekend...

[Mr Revhead]

Not only bugger all cars but they were very spread out. Made for very boring racing.

[Ugy]

At least it's Ford/Holden racing not....... Holden/Ford badged Holden racing

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Ugy

At least it's Ford/Holden racing not....... Holden/Ford badged Holden racing

So you would rather watch a procession as long as one bunch of cars have Ford badges and the rest have Holden badges?

I guess you won't be going to Hampton in February then.

[MacrosNZ]

So as soon as a Ford uses a Holden engine it's a Holden?

[on_to_it]

Well they will, but that's not what Ugy is talking about.

[KLR93]

Haha... if someone listed the amount of control parts in an NZV8 engine you would hardly call it ford or holden

[on_to_it]

Hey that's weird, the post I replied to has disappeared. Clues anyone?

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Hey that's weird, the post I replied to has disappeared. Clues anyone?

My post? I did a sneaky edit

[MacrosNZ]

There was a 20b powered Corvette Transam at the Puke round in the GTs. I wouldn't call it a Mazda.

[promax]

it's a Camaro body not a Corvette and someone seems to think it's a Mazda

there was talk of Cameron using a RX7 body on that car

[MacrosNZ]

ahh touche

[GizzFan]

Hey check out V8 Supercars website today, the Mac Attack has ditched SBR for FPR and joins Will Davidson for the enduro's next year.

So maybe either Davo or Frosty might be in JM second entry wouldnt that be be cool!!

Hmm wonder how the Kid feels about this lets hope that he gets a ride with somebody that can do the same job as Johny like say Craig Baird now that we be a hell of an enduro pairing wouldnt it.

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by MacrosNZ

There was a 20b powered Corvette Transam at the Puke round in the GTs. I wouldn't call it a Mazda.

And it was FAST

[GizzFan]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

And it was FAST

What do you call fast? like Kayne Scotts 54.5 in Petchs Dodge Viper, or 55.2 by Nick Chesters 800 HP VZ? and by the way i could be wrong but im sure the 20B rotary is still sporting the old Camaro body work. Checking Camerons times at Ruapuna, last weekend, they are way of the top Transam times, like at least 4 seconds.

Back on topic V8ST, it will be bloody interesting to see what times the St boyes get down to at Ruapuna, my guess is a low 1.25 is on the cards down there.

Mylaps showed the best time mitchels car did was 1.31.65 about 2 second of Foggies time of 1.29.6 so considering the car is supposed to weigh 150 Kg's less than an NZV8 and has heaps more rubber its got a long to go.

[Mr Revhead]

Yes it is till wearing a Camaro dress.
No idea gizz, as this was Ruapuna where i think it was about 2 secs off the Kayne Scotts corvette lap time (I can't remember if he was doing 23s or 21s) But it was much faster than anything else there.

[Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by GizzFan

What do you call fast? like Kayne Scotts 54.5 in Petchs Dodge Viper, or 55.2 by Nick Chesters 800 HP VZ? and by the way i could be wrong but im sure the 20B rotary is still sporting the old Camaro body work. Checking Camerons times at Ruapuna, last weekend, they are way of the top Transam times, like at least 4 seconds.

Back on topic V8ST, it will be bloody interesting to see what times the St boyes get down to at Ruapuna, my guess is a low 1.25 is on the cards down there.

Mylaps showed the best time mitchels car did was 1.31.65 about 2 second of Foggies time of 1.29.6 so considering the car is supposed to weigh 150 Kg's less than an NZV8 and has heaps more rubber its got a long to go.

I heard the MRX car was soo fast the wheels fell off it!