908

SL · 21 Nov 2001, 19:43 (Ref:177398)

Does anyone have any photo's of models of the famous Porsche 908 ?

(Just one or two will be enough for now)

Simon

Dr. Austin · 21 Nov 2001, 22:54 (Ref:177527)

This is the 908/1 spyder from the Targa Florio 1969. this is the winning car of.....errr, I'll have to look it up. The rules for 3-ltre prototypes were relaxed for 1969 and Porsche took full advantage of it by building the most streamlined and lightweight car they could. In fact, they eliminated some rear bracing because they thought the lack of bodywork no longer required it, but all five of the 908/1's that Porsche entered in the debut race at Sebring '69 suffered chassis failures. The brace was put back in for the next race at Brands Hatch where the little 908's scored a perfect 1, 2, 3. This was the car that Porsche built it's first world championship on. Of course, the 908LH's were used for Spa, Monza and LeMans, but the little spyder did it's share of points scoring.

Later at the Nurburgring, Porsche introduced the 908/2 Flounder, two of which backflipped in practice. The works team "borrowed" twop of the 908/1's from the Porsche Austria team for the race, and not only did they win, but also clinched the manufacturer's championship.

The 908/1 didn't have much of a lifespan as most were converted to the aerodynamically superior 908/2, but it had a great run while it lasted. This was the little Porsche that could.

The model is built from a BEST brand diecast that was stripped and cleaned up. I had a set of decals from a starter grab bag (what a great investement)so I just built it. In fact, the grab bag had the whole team, so I built all six cars from the Targa. Of course, I had to re-paint all the wheels and interior, engine and all that, but the re-built diecast looks nearly as good as a handbuilt. But I think the handbuilt was less effort.

TimD · 22 Nov 2001, 00:35 (Ref:177546)

You built that out of a BEST, Doc?

You're good!

As a Porsche builder, what are your opinions on the PIT range? The only PIT I've had a crack at is a lightweight Jaguar E, and it was frankly a bit of a struggle. But as Porsches are their stock in trade, what are their basic bits like?

TimD · 22 Nov 2001, 00:38 (Ref:177548)

By the way, the winning 266 Porsche in the 1969 Targa Florio was driven by Gerhard Mitter and Udo Schutz.

Dr. Austin · 22 Nov 2001, 03:10 (Ref:177571)

OK, someone tell me about this car.

Marshal · 22 Nov 2001, 08:56 (Ref:177607)

Looks like one of the Wyer (JWA) cars used on the Targa Florio in 70-71

iucrmh · 22 Nov 2001, 09:17 (Ref:177616)

The 908/03 looks like the 1970 winning car on the Targa Florio of Jo Siffert/Brian Redman. Good job on converting the Best diecast, gives me an idea or two.

Small technical question, do you clearcoat your models, and with what?

Cheers
Mike

Dr. Austin · 22 Nov 2001, 14:51 (Ref:177713)

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by iucrmh

"The 908/03 looks like the 1970 winning car on the Targa Florio of Jo Siffert/Brian Redman."

Yes. this models is now in Brian's collection.

"Good job on converting the Best diecast, gives me an idea or two."

Please share your ideas. Got any pictures to share? Got any decals to trade? Got any headlight covers for a BMW LMP 1999? Any kits?

"Small technical question, do you clearcoat your models, and with what?"

Bob DaVault at Automodelli does all of my clearcoat work. He uses DuPont Chroma, some pretty toxic stuff. Since I don't want to posion my neighbors (unlike me, they are all very nice people, I send them to him. He always does a beautiful job, always on time. The guy is also completely honest. You can reach him at (989) 723-6703. He also does complete builds and is the best I have seen. He did a Pilot 333sp for me that is the cleanest build I have ever seen. I bought it sight unseen to trade to a guy I know who is a Ferrari nut, but it was so beautiful I just had to keep it.

However, if you want to do it yourself and don't have a spray booth, I recommend Krylon crystal clear acrylic. It is absolutely clear and won't crack or yellow. You won't get the same killer shine as chroma, but you can buff it out to a respectable shine. Some guys don't think the ultra shine is realistic, which it isn't, so they prefer something a littless glossy. The krylon does a good job. If I have a piece I can't wait for, I blow on the krylon and buff it out the next day. Of course, you don't have to buff it, but I go for maximum shine. The Krylon is, however, very hot paint and you will have to "dust" it once or twice to build up a barrier coat. Otherwise, it migh eat the decals.

There is also plastikote classis lacquer clear, but I have had poor results buffing it out. Maybe I need to let it dry longer. The rest of the plastikote line of paint is superb and I use it all the time. Their clear coat has a beautif shine that rivals chroma, but I have had some problems with it cracking after six months or so. It could be from the high Florida humidity, but I just don't know. Anytime I have a piece that is important (aren't they all?), I just don't risk it and I send it to Bob.

Here is another 908. Like the 908/3, this is from a Starter kit. I looked all over the world for five years trying to find this kit, and as soon as I did, Starter re-issued it! I saw this car run a Sebring in 1970 and it almost won the race. It was a tricky build with all those little pinstriped. Big hands and bad eyes didn't help.

Dr. Austin · 22 Nov 2001, 16:29 (Ref:177747)

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TimD

You built that out of a BEST, Doc?"

Sometimes you can't get a kit, so you do the best you can. I have also been known to clearcoat a stock best model and tweak the chassis and such. Those come out pretty good too. Please excuse the poor picture. I got a new camera that works beuatifully, but i am still learning how to use it. My lighting system is on loan to a friend right now, so all I have is flash. I also don't have a suitable backdrop right now. I am probably going to get the LeMans Miniatures LeMans pits in 1/43 and those will look superb. Until then, please bear with me.

"As a Porsche builder, what are your opinions on the PIT range? The only PIT I've had a crack at is a lightweight Jaguar E, and it was frankly a bit of a struggle."

They are a bit crude, aren't they? They certainly aren't the worst, but they are difficult. I try to stay in the Starter/PM range for my Porsche projects, and I will never turn down the chance to build a Marsh or especially a BBR. Pit makes alot of cars and I would like their web site if anyone has it. If I can squeeze decals out of them, who knows what I can build from a diecast? Sometimes if there is a special project you just have to bite the bullet and build whatever you can get. It builds modelling character, but i have had enough of crappy kits. If the kit is more than I'm willing to put up with, I just keep the decals and convert a diecast! Even then, sometimes there is no diecast of what you want, so we all have to build a crappy kit once in awhile. I have only seen one or two PIT kits, but I am told their new stuff is getting better. Too bad they all aren't as good as BBR.

Got any pictures or something to trade?

Somebody name that car.

iucrmh · 22 Nov 2001, 21:15 (Ref:177871)

I will post some pictures when I get hold of a decent digital camera. Strange you should mention the BMW LMP from 1999, I have just finished painting one. I'll check about spare headlight covers if you are serious, as some of these kits have spares.

Shame that the only 100% reliable clearcoats are twin pack and very poisonous. I do tend to think that too shiny a model isn't always true to the original but if you want the decals to last for a good few years it is the best way to go.

Tip: My justification for an ever growing collection of Le Mans cars, diecast and kits is that their value is growing, unlike the value of any shares I have ever picked.....

Dr. Austin · 22 Nov 2001, 22:54 (Ref:177909)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by iucrmh

I'll check about spare headlight covers if you are serious, as some of these kits have spares."

Unbelievably, I am serious. I got the whole model finished and then boffed the covers!

"Shame that the only 100% reliable clearcoats are twin pack and very poisonous. I do tend to think that too shiny a model isn't always true to the original but if you want the decals to last for a good few years it is the best way to go."

There are two schools of model building. One is to make the cars as exact as possible for that one instant in time you are trying to re-create. That would include dirt, splatterd bugs and battle damage. "Those are fun because if you make a little mistake, smear some dirt over it!

The other is to make it as perfect and clean a build as possible and make it a work of art. That is the school of building the way I was taught by a grand master. I fail his teachings miserably, but I get better with each one, so there is hope.

I have, however, succumbed to temptation and built a realistic car or two, and the enclosed one is an example of how much fun modelling can be. And not only did this car race in this exact trim, but I saw the fist fight that broke out between the crews after the accident that caused it.

TimD · 23 Nov 2001, 01:07 (Ref:177949)

I cut my modelmaking teeth on "weathering" 1/72 scale fighting aircraft. It's snapshots in time and dioramas all the way for me. And I know what you mean about theoretically being able to recover from a modelmaking slip with a bit of strategic dirt.

The favourite clearcoat dodge of the military aviation modellers is "Johnsons Clear/Future". I have to confess, it seals in the finish nicely, and doesn't seem to go off for a good while. And it suits my "realism in miniature" preference. It also has the advantage of being basically inert, and thus safe with all of one's carefully Solvasetted decals.

Now, I like what you've done with the 917. That's my kind of model. As usual, though, my own efforts are very humble in comparison with your own.

Dr. Austin · 23 Nov 2001, 04:23 (Ref:177966)

I didn't "wreck" it myself. It was a kit that came with the fender moulded that way. A friend drug the body out of his junk box and was going to throw it away. "It's broke." Then I got a good look at it and saw what it was. So I was waaaay lucky to get this one because you can forget about finding another kit.

I suppose you could cut the fender off yourself and some guys have, but i was lucky enough to find the body and build the rest of it from spare parts.

cybersdorf · 23 Nov 2001, 19:33 (Ref:178235)

"I like what you've done with the 917." - "I didn't wreck it myself."

How the times have changed... - in 1971, it would have read:

"I DON'T like what you've done with the 917." - "I didn't wreck it myself (Mr. Piech, sir)."

Anybody got a picture of a post-1971 Le Mans 908? Some of these had some pretty odd headlight assemblies.

Dr. Austin · 23 Nov 2001, 22:40 (Ref:178295)

Ashamedly. I don't know a thing about this car except that Tobelrone candy bars are deadly delicious. But here is a 908/3 with headlights it was never designed to have. It is from LeMans 1973 (I think).

The 1971 rules called for the addition of the full width roll bar and all it's bracking and, I believe a bigger fire bottle. They may have even raised the weight minimun, negating the little 908's biggest advantage. The last international win for the 908 in NA form was Imola 1972 by Reinhold Joest's ('Jost).

I have to qualify that by saying that N.ring 1976 may have been won by a 908, but I'm not sure. I will have to look it up. This will be alot easier when I get all this info on my harddrive.

cybersdorf · 24 Nov 2001, 08:38 (Ref:178380)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
I have to qualify that by saying that N.ring 1976 may have been won by a 908, but I'm not sure.

Unfortunately, it wasn't. The 1976 winners were Gunnar Nilsson and Dieter "The Mummy Returns" Quester with a - guess what...

cybersdorf · 24 Nov 2001, 08:50 (Ref:178382)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
Ashamedly. I don't know a thing about this car except that Tobelrone candy bars are deadly delicious. But here is a 908/3 with headlights it was never designed to have. It is from LeMans 1973 (I think).

Sure is - it finished 5th. Have a look at this picture: http://uk.geocities.com/rollinman//lm73/73lm03.htm

cybersdorf · 24 Nov 2001, 09:09 (Ref:178386)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
Somebody name that car.

Uhhh...
Let's see now: surprisingly enough, this is a Porsche 908/2.
The nose says 1969.
Team Porsche Salzburg (or "Porsche of Austria" - this is the easiest part since it's got "Österreich" written across the nose, and is resplendent in the Austrian national colours).

Chassis no. 18 - 1969 Watkins Glen 6hrs. - Siffert/Redman - winner.

??

Dr. Austin · 24 Nov 2001, 16:32 (Ref:178482)

Quote:

Originally posted by cybersdorf

Uhhh...
Let's see now: surprisingly enough, this is a Porsche 908/2.
The nose says 1969.
Team Porsche Salzburg (or "Porsche of Austria" - this is the easiest part since it's got "Österreich" written across the nose, and is resplendent in the Austrian national colours).

Chassis no. 18 - 1969 Watkins Glen 6hrs. - Siffert/Redman - winner.

??

You are too good. I will have to try hard to come up with something obscure if I am going to catch you out! This probably won't do it, but maybe you won't know.

Dr. Austin · 24 Nov 2001, 16:40 (Ref:178485)

Quote:

Originally posted by cybersdorf

Unfortunately, it wasn't. The 1976 winners were Gunnar Nilsson and Dieter "The Mummy Returns" Quester with a - guess what...

We must be talking about two different races. In 1976, Porsche debuted it's 936 at the Nurburgring. After the two team Alpine Renaults took each other out at the first corner ( ! ) the Martini 936, still in it's testing black paint scheme, took over until it's throttle cable broke. Then Reinhold Joest won in his old turbo 908.

You must but talking about a touring or GT race. In that case, my best quess was that Questor won in a BMW. I don't ever remember seeing him drive anything else. I saw him driving one at Sebring 97, so the mummy had a pretty long career.

cybersdorf · 24 Nov 2001, 17:37 (Ref:178502)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
We must be talking about two different races.

In fact, yes we are. I just realised that in 1976, two races on the Nordschleife counted towards the World Ch'ship - I only bothered to check the result of the 1000k race, the one you are talking about was the 300k race. Pardon me.

Quote:

In that case, my best quess was that Questor won in a BMW.

Yep, a 3.5 CSL.

Quote:

I don't ever remember seeing him drive anything else.

For the last couple of years he has been driving Porsches 996s for the RWS Red Bull team in the FIA and at places like Daytona (seems that BMW didn't have any use for him anymore...). He finished fourth in N-GT (that's what they call the smaller GTs) in this year's FIA GT series, in spite of having to miss a couple of rounds after surgery. He was in contention for the title up to the last race but his team mate got caught up in a crash at the start, and that settled it. RWS came 2nd in the team Ch'ship. Some class wins, 5th o/a in the Spa 24hrs., usually in the top ten o/a, in the World's most competitive GT series - not a bad year at all, really. Must be the Red Bull that keeps him going.

Quote:

I saw him driving one at Sebring 97, so the mummy had a pretty long career.

Over 40 years (43 if you add his power boat racing - he was European Champion in... - 1804??) He'll be 64 next year, I believe. I hope he'll get to do Le Mans once again.

cybersdorf · 24 Nov 2001, 18:14 (Ref:178512)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
You are too good.

No I'm not. I just look up the stats, and I know where to look

Okay, let's see.

It's a Porsche.
It's a 908.
It's got a roof so the year is 1968.
It's a works car (of course).

Nürburgring 1000k - Siffert/Elford - chassis no. 008 - winner.
This was the 908s maiden win.

Right?

Dr. Austin · 25 Nov 2001, 05:13 (Ref:178626)

Quote:

Originally posted by cybersdorf

No I'm not. I just look up the stats, and I know where to look

Okay, let's see.

It's a Porsche.
It's a 908.
It's got a roof so the year is 1968.
It's a works car (of course).

Nürburgring 1000k - Siffert/Elford - chassis no. 008 - winner.
This was the 908s maiden win.

Right?

Right. You are the trivia and guru king here, i see. I am going to have to pull up a really wierd one to catch you out, but i can do it. It may take some time though.

cybersdorf · 25 Nov 2001, 09:35 (Ref:178646)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
You are the trivia and guru king here, i see.

No I'm not - have a look at this (scroll all the way down):
http://speedvision01.e-media.com/pub...itage/003.html

From there, it was easy

Splatz the Cow · 25 Nov 2001, 18:54 (Ref:178768)

G'day Dr.A!

Have you modelled the 906?

Do you know of the no.8 car of Tetsu Ikuzawa that one the Japan Grand Prix