Standing Starts: Should Cart adopt them?

[Jay]

ok, what do you guys think? After the incident at teh start of today's race (and many others), standing starts look like a good idea?

How about safety? Which ones are safer? My feeling is that the standing starts are because the drivers arrive at a much slower speed to teh first corner. But, what do you think?

It would certainly make things simpler for the start. Although there are a few logistics to sort out that would cost a bit... starting lights must be put up, and sensors need to be placed in the ground (a la F1) to catch any false starts. Still, I think it might be worthwhile... your thoughts?

[corkholio]

No, standing starts would not be good.

With nearly half the schedule being ultra narrow street circuits you could have a car flying into the fence when there is a stalled car at the front of the grid. Remember these cars don't have launch control. That's not the mention they might have to abort the starts because of the wrecked Coyne wagons from the formation lap.

I don't buy the argument that its safer because they arrive at the first corner with slower speed. They got through Cleveland just fine this year, didn't they?

They probably have to redesign the clutches just for the standing starts too.

[paulzinho]

No, leave it as it is, standing starts are for F1, Champ cars need to have their own identity, at the momen t the rumours are making it sound like its going to have the same regs as F1.....

[evo]

To be honest, standing starts aren't any safer. The Fran-Am race in Vancouver yesterday had a standing start (the first I had ever seen) and Sean Macintosh got into the back of Robert Bell and got airborne. Amazingly he continued on with only a broken front wing. Having said that, the standing start was far more exciting than the rolling starts.

[Jay]

This? http://www.fran-am.com/franam/media/...nap/r7/r/2.jpg

There's always a lot of spins and accidents, but I have to admit I'm really warming to the Fran-Am series. It's exteremely competitive at the front, and costs a fraction of what Atlantic requires. And the V6's are coming soon, which will be North America's F3000 level series....

[Evilsenna]

When going for the start, they should keep their speed at around 60mph until the green flag is dropped, that way, the field stay close and we have a clean start.

Look at Nascar, they don't have a lot of problems with their
rolling starts

[GTV27]

I vote for standing starts (for road courses only though)

You can't beat the excitment of a standing start (well maybe a traditional LeMans start ).

And if CART is going to be the step below F1, it should be adopting a standing start to harmonise and provide training to the drivers who want to step up.

[avsfan733]

i say Standing start, as long as traction control is banned

[JohnSSC]

Rolling starts are fine if the Starter is competent. The guy CART is using now needs to be replaced.

Not that I doubt the outcome of the race would have been any different, but the Starter should have been on top of Bruno's move and should have waved off the start. That would have saved the goofing around later of having Bruno move over.

[gttouring]

standing starts don't really work for CART as much as I love them, especially as there are Ovals, street and road courses the rules would have to differ place to place, I wouldn't mind a suggestion I read somewhere here, about a pit speed limiter start, get every one on the limiter and when the green flag goes - whammo
full rich and fly away

[racer69]

Leave it as rolling starts.

Both standing and rolling starts are just as dangerous as eachother

[The Snout]

CART is supposed to be the most diverse series right ? Well how about having 3 or 4 standing starts. That way we can truly say our guys do it all and also preserve the identity of the series by retaining rolling starts.

[R]

I think rolling starts are safer, and Champ Cars should stick with them. From memory, I've seen more big startline and first corner accidents in F1 than I have in Champ Cars.

I thought Junqueira's penalty was a sissy one. He so clearly jumped the start - at the very least I would have thought he ought to have got a drive through penalty. But what does the rule book say?

I agree with JohnSSC though, that the starter should have been on top of the situation, and waved the start off. I was very surprised when I saw that he didn't.

[BootsOntheSide]

CART needs to keep rolling starts. Theyare the classic American way, and teh series needs to exploit its histroy if ti can sustain, let alone rebuild, any US popularity.

Doin the starts on the speed limiter is a great idea, which would ensure the same speed for everyone and prevent anything as pathetic as the start yesterday.

[f1manoz]

I prefer rolling starts, and completely disagree with the argument that standing starts are safer. We've seen many big accidents with standing starts - Ricardo Paletti is a tragic case that comes to mind...

[429CJ]

We do not need standing starts, we only need sharper officials.

[Adam43]

Rolling starts are safer, but I don't think that means you shouldn't have standing starts.

I would like to see a combination of both. For variety (why not?)! Ovals would have to be rolling, but then I'd like to see a mixture on the other courses too. Perhaps the choice sould depend on the width of the start finish straight (or a general asessment of the situation).

None of this is based on whgat happened in this race (or earlier this year). Whatever that needs to be improved.

But let's have both. It would be another skill drivers would have to have. Variety the spice of life.

[norman-normal]

Standing starts have not been used in the US because indy cars, for many years, had only two or three gears.

I'm not aware of any stats, but I doubt that there is much of a safety differance.

There is one big differance: standing starts can be policed, rolling starts are often impossible even with video replays.

[R]

Of course the starter does his best, but would rolling starts be easier to police if the rule said that the driver who is on pole have to cross the start/finish line first? The way it is done on restarts after full course yellows?

[Omega99]

Rolling starts are great on ovals, and a standing start would be kinda stupid there, but the proposal of standing starts at street and road courses is interesting. The biggest problem is people jumping the start in the first place, not the starter making an error. I agree with Evilsenna that changes must be made to the procedure of a rolling start. The formation of the field must be completed and maintained across the start line. Maybe the field should be on pit speed limiters until the green flag is given when the pole sitter crosses the start finish line. Well, maybe not pit speed lmiters, but the field should be slowed down to allow for a better start. Slower speed would make give it the scramble of a standing start with the initital speed of a rolling start for more excitment. The beswt of both worlds, but probably not as safe as the rolling starts we have now, where half the field is left behind in the last few turns while the leaders fly away from everyone!

[R]

I realized I had forgotten to vote until now, and the score so far is a little surprising, especially having read the posts - 20 votes in favour of switching to standing starts on road and street courses, while only 9 in favour of continuing with rolling starts! Looks like the majority of those in favour of a switch to standing starts are the quiet type.

[tanalised]

I'd like to see some standing starts on road courses like Road America, Mid Ohio and Laguna. No traction control. Would be great listening and watching a start as they all light their tyres up

[norman-normal]

It's very easy to spot someone jumping the gun on a standing start with a vid replay, then adding a 5sec penality on a pit stop.

On a rolling start there is no way you can determine the speed of each car. A driver can hang back a bit as they enter the front straight, then speed up to bring it on line as the flag falls. A few extra MPH can make a big diffrence.

As I stated before, the only reason the USA uses rolling starts was because of the indy cars inadequate gear box.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by norman-normal
On a rolling start there is no way you can determine the speed of each car. A driver can hang back a bit as they enter the front straight, then speed up to bring it on line as the flag falls. A few extra MPH can make a big diffrence.

That's exactly why you should have rolling starts. It's what creates the spectacle.

Frankly, the problem with these starts is that the drivers aren't lining up until the last corner in order to spend as much time as possible warming their tires. The entire third lap should be in formation, as far as I'm concerned. They've already had two laps to warm up. And the flag man should have assistants watching from towers near the last corner to ensure that everyone is lined up as they come through...

edited to say As far as your quote about gearboxes is concerned, why then did Can-Am have rolling starts? Why do all sportscar races have rolling starts?

[norman-normal]

Can Am is, like most US racing, influenced by Indy.

They arn't lining up because they all are trying to gain that extra speed advantage.

All sports car races are rolling starts? When I was racing SCCA used some rolling starts. But Cal Club ( the preferrd venue in the west) was all standing starts. Just about all the drivers who raced both, liked standing starts the best.

I'm not sure what you mean by "spectacle" but I think thats the part I don't like.