Touring Cars the greatest era?

[Speedy norm]

It appears we think of the 90s as the best for the BTCC
Why? we had TV coverage yes but suppose we could have had BHP coverage in earlier years? Think of the charachters which would have reached a much wider audience as a consequence.
A post race interview between Rob Gravett and Tim Harvy, hmm ok but consider the entertainment of a Yogi Muir,Gordon Spice and Frank Gardner interview particular over a disagreement over a corner. The bleep machine would be working overtime!
Any more combinations?

[Peter Mallett]

If we are talking BTCC then I'd say the Group 1 and Group A era from '76 to '88. However if we are talking ETCC then it would be Group 2 from 1970 to '76.

[racer69]

In terms of worldwide stability and communication in the Touring Car world, it would be the Group A years between 1985-1988.

For Australia, the Group C years of 1983-1984 providing some great racing, though spoilt abit by politicing and rule arguments

[Speedy norm]

Whilst i share Peters enthusiasm for Gp1 Capris ( love the Belga paintwork ) I cannot be so enthusiastic over the grp 2 era for ETCC
By far the best period for ETCC was the mid 80s - group A -TWR Rovers CiBeMme 635 and of course the Volvos All helped by the fabulous journalism of Autosports Joe Seward - Whatever happened to him?

[gfm]

For me, Group 5 Mann Escorts, Wiggin Teape Camaros, Gardner's Boss Mustangs. What year were they or have I mixed my era? Late sixties?

[glyn parham]

For me, I liked both late sixties, early seventies (Group 5 then Group 2) with the Camaros, Falcons, Boss Mustang etc and the mid eighties just before Ford introduced the Sierra Cosworth.
At the 1986 Spa 24 hours my friend Nigel said to me shortly before the start "In years to come we will look back on this season and realise just how competitive and interesting it was". How right he was.
BTW Nigel, its about time you registered!
Glyn

[Andrew Kitson]

I'm with gfm on this one - the late 60s / early 70s.
Fantastic racing without the stock car antics of 1990s touring car drivers.I won't even consider the driving of the competitors in this new millennium...if you can't get past,push him off the track! Should be at Wimbledon stadium.
I liked the four class system too, but did not agree that the champion could come from the lower classes. It should have been decided by the winners at the front.
But what it did do was provide plenty of backmarkers for the leaders to navigate through and give four 'seperate' lead duels within a race. Once the big American heavy metal had gone through the corner, we waited for the Escorts,the BMWs and the Imps and Minis at the back. All usually cornering sideways or on three wheels! Spectacular stuff with real characters at the wheel, the list goes on and on - Frank Gardner, Brian Muir, John Fitzpatrick, Chris Craft, Dave Brodie, Vince Woodman, Willie Green, Gordon Spice, Steve Neal, John Rhodes, Gerry Marshall, Bill McGovern, Bernard Unett, Richard Longman, Terry Sanger, Martin Thomas, Roy Pierpoint, Dennis Leech, John Buncombe, Mike Crabtree etc etc. Great days!

[zefarelly]

60's for the carefree relaxed nature of it all . . .and some lovely cars, 70's for the technology and innovation that went into it all (some of it quite mad !) and 80's onwards for the media coverage. I guess overall the late 60's early 70'd probably had the best overall

[KA]

I guess it's one of those things where your opinion is going to be influenced very much by the era of touring cars you first experienced- certainly from reading the various touring car forums both here on Ten-Tenths and elsewhere, for a lot of people, any awareness of the history of the BTCC starts pretty much at the early 90's- presumably becuase that was their first discovery of touring car racing.

I can understand the attraction of regarding the Supertouring period as the peak, because of the depth of factory support for touring cars, and the amount of 'star' drivers in that period, but as someone whose personal recollections of touring cars start with Group A (1985, so just missed the TWR Jags in Europe...), I'd have to say RS500's and M3s (or even better Rovers and Volvo 240 Turbos) were definitely more spectacular to watch than Cavaliers and Mondeos- I suspect though, that if I'd had the chance to have seen the 60's, then there wouldn't be anything to compare with Jim Clark in a Lotus Cortina and John Rhodes in a Cooper S....

[simon drabble]

I am with the rest of you
60's and early 70's, but isnt that true of all racing or is that me showing my age????!!!

[Jonny Apex]

[i]Mike Crabtree etc etc. Great days! [/B]

Around the time I was born, but who'll ever forget that race at Crystal Palace - it made the BBC's 100 Greatest Sporting Moments! What a race.

I wish I'd been born earlier because I just know how amazing those cars and drivers must have been to watch during that era.

I don't have a particular favourite era, rather favourites.

I used to love those Spice Capris and Rover Vitesses.

1994 (just before all the aero kits) also stands out. Massive manufacturer and spectator appeal and fantastic drivers. Plus, of course, Murray Walker.

The TT race at Silverstone, when Rouse beat the Eggenberger RS500s, was also a brilliant race to be at and watch on TV (I've still got Grandstand's highlights on tape somewhere).

The current lot is still taking shape under Alan Gow so I don't think it's fair to compare until it's in full swing. One would suspect that it's going to be very impressive.

[zefarelly]

I wasnt born when all my faves where about, which just makes them even less attainable now !

[Andrew Kitson]

I do fortunately as a very young kid remember seeing Jimmy Clark in the Lotus Cortina at Brands in '66.
I still have this vivid memory of the Guards Trophy meeting and my father pointing him out. His front left wheel was about two feet in the air all the way around south bank lap after lap(Surtees now).
Then there was John Rhodes, completey sideways in the Mini through Stowe at Silverstone in 67, smoke pouring from the front tyres, steering the car on the throttle.
Yep, definitely the 60s/70s for me.

[davemorganfan]

I'm with Andrew on this. If you have never heard a Boss Mustang at full tilt, you have never lived. My eardrums still feel the pain.

[Andrew Kitson]

I'm sure Ted at Ferret Fotographics is with us on this one too, i.e the 60s/70s.
Borrowed this from your homepage Ted - look at the angle of Gerry Marshall's mini at the back - great stuff!
Copyright Ted Walker Ferret Fotographics.

[gfm]

Andrew, can you link up into Dave Marshall's shots in previous threads? The Boss Mustang was in the middle of all that.
Yes, I too am concerned my perspective is determined by my age, but what actually happened was that as great as Clark and Ickx were, three wheeling through Bottom Bend, I was there too, it was the Group 5 era that bought the biggest number of powerful cars to the grid.
Frankly the BTCC stuff we see now is no more exciting to watch than a normal weekday at Hyde Park corner in the wet.
I can't quite get over this from the point of view of spectators - many thousands (30K ?) go to watch Vauxhalls and ...... Vauxhalls, yet British GT1/GT2 which had Porsche, Lister, McLaren a few short years ago Ferraris, Lambos, Saleens today, could or can bearly muster 2000 hardy types a round today. Can't work it out.

[Peter Mallett]

John,

I've got one of Dave's shots here.

http://www.mallettracing.co.uk/history.htm

I believe the Group 5 year may have been 1969.

[marcus]

I cant speak for Euro racing but in Oz , I would say either the grupo A era , early 80's to late 80's were great.

But right now is Oz is pretty cool , to me its the best era for Touring cars right now downunder

[goforit500]

I just turned 40 so my formative years spanned the late 80s, the era of wild RS500s that weren't quite trick enough to do half the drivers' job. No ultra trick torque biasing diffs, just loads of grunt and tyres that could just about hang in there with the power...And a little bit of cheating going on to keep things lively

Maybe explains why I still pour all my dosh into a 550BHP Rear Wheel drive Cossie powered racecar :-)

[Andrew Kitson]

OK John, as requested here are some shots taken by our own Dave Marshall (his copyright). DaveM,where are you? Long time since you posted!
First one is the proper Woodcote corner at Silverstone in '69, the midfield bunch.

[Andrew Kitson]

John Rhodes in typical pose through South Bank.

[Andrew Kitson]

Big American V8 Falcons with Gardners' Alan Mann Escort chasing. Croft, through the chicane in 68.

[simon drabble]

great photo's and gfm I completely agree abt your comments about tintops and GT, it is quite bizarre!

[Pierre]

The greatest era in touring car racing would have to be 1968--1973 ,the era in which BDA/BDG Ford Escorts terrorised every thing on the circuits around the world , and under the right circumstances still will do the same. Group [2] escorts , are the BEES KNEE'S........I am very biased on this choice due to owning one of these such cars [ 2l, alloy BDG ,LUCAS INJECTED ,5 SPEED GEARBOX ,FULL FLOATER REARAXLE ]..It has not been raced for about 18 years and is not likely to be in the near or distant future [a real museum piece].....

[Andrew Kitson]

Pierre, what a waste - please get it on the track where it should be!