no Jordan test for Briscoe

[Raglanparade]

According to the f1-central website, Australian Ryan Briscoe will not fill a seat in the Jordan team for 2005.

It has been also suggested on that site that talks did not progress to the test stage, and that Ryan is now looking at running a Toyota powered car in the IRL.

I hope that this proves to be wrong.

Ryan Briscoe kicked Kliens backside in F3 and deserves a F1 Seat.

[Turbo_Era]

Don't think either of them deserve a seat actually. Maybe a testing role would be fine.

Gascoyne was less than impressed with Briscoe. And Jordan is just trying to get the best driver (with money) he can.

[Wrex]

Gascoyne is no fool either, so it does'nt look good for Ryan.

Champ cars aint that bad though, if he can get in a good team there he should do well.

[toot toot]

Ryan Briscoe kicked Kliens backside in F3 and deserves a F1 Seat. [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree. He should of had the Jag race seat ahead of Klien not that i'm saying Klien did a bad job but Briscoe is more deserving of the F1 seat.

[BootsOntheSide]

ChampCars and IRL are 2 completely different championships Wrex, so don't get them mixed up.

Brisco went into Euro F3 with much more experience than Klien, so I don't think he proved anything by beating him. When he was in F3000 he struggled badly. It's good for Jordan that Toyota aren't exerting any pressure regardign drivers, as it means Eddie can hopefully get one talented driver and one well-funded guy in.

[Wrex]

Oops, should read more carefully

[N I Tram]

Klien's got a lot more potential than Briscoe in my book, once you consider their respective careers before Euro F3. And Briscoe's not really among the best drivers outside of F1 - look at guys like Bourdais, Wirdheim, Wilson, Toccacello, Davidson, Jamie Green et al.

[Attila]

When Briscoe was in F3000 a certain Zsolt Baumgartner everybody's "Slowgartner" beat him fair and square with Coca-Cola Nordic racing. Zsolt only had half a season more experience than Ryan so lack of experience is not the reason.

[mac]

Originally posted by Turbo_Era
Gascoyne was less than impressed with Briscoe.

Where on Earth does this come from!!!???

EVERYTHING I have EVER seen where Gascoyne has commented on Briscoe has been nothing but complementary and flattering.

And all of this raving on about Anthony Davidson's GP practice times - if the British media would get off their ridiculously high horse, they might have noticed some of Briscoe's blistering lap times in GP practice.

And Jordan is just trying to get the best driver (with money) he can.

No they are not. They are simply trying to get the driver with the most money and a superlicence. Please .... the only reason Briscoe is not testing the Jordan is because he is a few million Euro short.

If he was Brazillian or Italian, he would have signed on the dotted line months ago.

And forget about his half season in F3000 - it was with a horribly bad team that were on a very rocky slide.

As for Briscoe's credentials, he won his first ever car racing championship (Italian Formula Renault). Next up came the horrible F3000 half year - if Toyota didn't rate him, they had a perfect opportunity to get rid of him here. They quit F3000 mid season and finished the year in German F3.

Briscoe didn't just beat Klien, he beat the entire (quality) EuroF3 field into submission.

And as for experience in F3, if half a season and a couple of races in your first year ever racing cars makes you a veteran, than David Coulthard should be racing in the retirement village Grand Prix for wheelchairs.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by mac
If he was Brazillian or Italian, he would have signed on the dotted line months ago.

Must not forget he's a hard done by Aussie, folks.....

And forget about his half season in F3000 - it was with a horribly bad team that were on a very rocky slide.

"A horribly bad team" who were the reigning champions, that would be...

[BootsOntheSide]

In fairness, Nordic of 2002 bore little relation to Nordic of 2001 though - Chris Mower had left and the Coca-Cola funding had gone down a lot, hence Zsolt's presence. The cars were new that year, so most of what the team knew was of no use. This doesn't excuse Ryanf ailing to be Zsolt, but it explains why neither scored any points.

[Turbo_Era]

Originally posted by mac
EVERYTHING I have EVER seen where Gascoyne has commented on Briscoe has been nothing but complementary and flattering.

Have you ever heard MG criticizing CdM publicly? And look... everyone in the paddock knew things got rather ugly between them.

MG has an active voice in drivers choice. Ryan didn't perform and if he did he'd be included in a deal with Jordan or kept his testing role. People at Toyota simply don't see any potential in him. Sorry.

IRL would be good for him, or even a testing role in F1... But a race seat? no.

If he was Brazilian or Italian he would be in the same position.

[Dixie Flatline]

Although I don't have an opportunity to watch lower formulae of racing, I had understood that Briscoe was quite highly regarded by Toyota, although Toyota weren't prepared to fund his tilt at an F1 seat. I think Briscoe has not been able to come up with the sponsorship dollars to be an attractive proposition for Jordan.

[Dixie Flatline]

Only a week ago on the same site was it reported that Briscoe was going to test for Jordan. IMHO, this supports my view that his failure to test is down to a lack of money, not necessarily talent.

[Turbo_Era]

Originally posted by Dixie Flatline
Only a week ago on the same site was it reported that Briscoe was going to test for Jordan. IMHO, this supports my view that his failure to test is down to a lack of money, not necessarily talent.

No doubt he has some talent... but he's nothing exceptional. As I said, if Toyota saw him as a future star, GP winner, WDC.. they would retain him or fund him a seat elsewhere in F1.

That's why I rate Webber so much... he never had the cash.. but his attitude, leading skills and speed got him a well deserved place in F1.

[Turbo_Era]

Originally posted by mac
And all of this raving on about Anthony Davidson's GP practice times - if the British media would get off their ridiculously high horse, they might have noticed some of Briscoe's blistering lap times in GP practice.

People also noticed how lovely was Briscoe's approach to the Parabolica in Italy. I'd love to see that telemetry data.

[mac]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Must not forget he's a hard done by Aussie, folks.....

It is a fact that drivers from South America or various countries in Europe do not need to have anywhere near the credentials of someone from Australia or New Zealand or other more far flung places to reach F1.

Look at Troy Bayliss in MotoGP - he lost his Ducati ride and look who replaced him. A washed up Spaniard with a heap of cash to spend who should have quit years ago.

Briscoe's not hard done by, he was very fortunate to land a factory Toyota development deal. It sounds nationalistic, but these are objective facts.

Who here could legitimately argue that James Courtney's ability warrants little more than a drive in Japanese GTs?

Webber made it to F1 because, Briatore and Renault made up the difference. Toyota has said to Ryan we will kick in $X million Euro to an F1 seat and you must bring the rest - and Ryan can't get the rest.

You make it sound like Toyota are casting him aside, but the fact is that they have kicked in a significant amount to a seat for Ryan, but he just can't make up the difference.

And Boots, you're prepared to cast him off into the wilderness because of half a season in a drastically uncompetitive F3000 car???? I know you are more rational than that.

[nkh]

Originally posted by mac
It is a fact that drivers from South America or various countries in Europe do not need to have anywhere near the credentials of someone from Australia or New Zealand or other more far flung places to reach F1.

Come on, you have an F1 track, you have a car industry, you have a team owner in F1, you have a driver at Williams... There are lots of countries that hasn't even got one of thoese things.

Originally posted by mac
Webber made it to F1 because, Briatore and Renault made up the difference. Toyota has said to Ryan we will kick in $X million Euro to an F1 seat and you must bring the rest - and Ryan can't get the rest.

If you're very talented you can get a drive with little money, if you're not very talented you'll have to bring a lot of money. So either the $X is small and the talent is big or the talent is small and the $X is big (and all posibilities inbetween)...

Originally posted by mac
You make it sound like Toyota are casting him aside, but the fact is that they have kicked in a significant amount to a seat for Ryan, but he just can't make up the difference..

So, $X is a 'significant amount', so the talent must be....

[Teretonga]

Long before the arrangement announced in Brazil Briscoe was quoted as saying Toyota were not going to arrange a drive in exchange for engines with a team and that he would have to find a significant amount of money. Eddie J needs a significant amount of money to pay for his engines and make it onto the grid at Melbourne.

[Wrex]

I think we should try and keep the nationality thing out of it.

Yes, its tough for Aussies to get a go, but its a big number of nations on that list. As it stands, we finally have one in a top seat. No complaints from me.

I think some get over sensative when someone suggest a driver does'nt cut the grade in F1. Dont be. There are 1000's of drivers that are very talented, and only 20 seats. your gonna loose at least 4 of them to big wallets, now leaving less than 16.

I have no doubt the top 200 drivers in the world could peddle a F1 car very quickly, but those 16 seats are reserved for the very special.

Yep, marketing comes into it, and smaller countries will do it tougher than others. But the real exceptional talents will usually make it regardless of cash or nationality.

I'm pretty sure had Schumacher, Senna or Prost been an aussie (or other small country), there would still be a wealth of WDC between them.

In summary, saying Ryan is'nt good enough for F1 does'nt mean he is'nt a very good driver, its really just saying he is'nt in the top 10 in the world.

Hardly an insult is it.

[mountainstar]

In regards to all this I think it should be remembered that Toyota has paid his way all the way to the door of F1 and that they ask that he pay for a part of an F1 ride, I don't think is wrong. In retrospect he should have been building a sponsorship portfolio years ago.

And remember Toyota has paid for everything, including giving him a car and salary. How many people and/or companies would be willing to do that?

[Robert Ryan]

Turbo,
Webber never won an openwheel championship in Australia. His best result was 4th in Formula Ford. I wonder what the discussion would have been like if ALL the drivers who have won in singlseaters in Australia decided to try their hand at racing overseas.

[Turbo_Era]

Originally posted by Robert Ryan
Turbo,
Webber never won an openwheel championship in Australia. His best result was 4th in Formula Ford. I wonder what the discussion would have been like if ALL the drivers who have won in singlseaters in Australia decided to try their hand at racing overseas.

I'd love to see them here! Just disturbing that many of these guys end up driving V8s at home.

Don't take me wrong, I watched one of the races in my last trip to Australia, and it's quite exciting... But I still imagine what it would be if your companies decided to put some money behind single seaters.

If we look to the Brazilian example, it's quite impressive how a "poor" country gets so many drivers in F1, IRL, ChampCars, SF...

[mac]

Because motor racing (after football) is the national sport.

And I never said that Australia was the only country whose drivers received harsh treatment. If you actually read my post, I do refer to "other far flung places".

[Raglanparade]

I think Briscoe should find a home in the states, build up some success with Toyota, and try his hand in F1 again once Trulli has been givin the arse in about a seasons time.