state of club racing

[soper]

I have been a BRSCC club member & driver for 15 years and was the coordinator of the AutoItalia championship for 6 of those

Interesting threads on this forum, here are some of my thoughts on the state of club racing for you to muse :

Costs - Look around the paddock, where are the younger generation - unless there is family money someone in their twenties cannot afford to race. Housing costs are so high, even if you have an above average salary you cannot afford to race and support a mortgage as a first time buyer, let alone a family. Even racing your road car is difficult because road insurance is crippling, and modern houses have precious little room for race cars and trailers. So the people that go racing tend to be financially sorted mid to late thirties upwards who pay others to have their cars prepared. Given this its no wonder the driver pool is shrinking, and how many of those who are racing can manage to do a full championship?

When I coordinated the AutoItalia championship I used to reckon it good going to get a third of my registered drivers out at any time, in the best years of 98 & 99 I had over 75 registrations. Perhaps 15 of those 75 intended to do a full season and contend the championship, and about a half of the 15 would break their car and give up on the championship half way through. Of those that stopped racing it is mostly because of cost, whilst those who are better off inevitably want more for their money hence the popularity of Radicals and Britcar which offer longer races. I did see a bit of criticism of the BRSCC EuroSaloon race championship in one of the threads but what we are trying to provide is somewhere to race practically whatever car you have on a national basis (so long as it is not a Radical, Caterham or special GT silhouette etc)

The real problem facing us is the very structure of club racing, as well as too many championships there are too many organising clubs - BRSCC, BARC, BRDC, 750MC, CSCC, HSCC, DDMC, JCC, SEMSEC, Top Hat, and too many vested interests of the people proposing championships. All these clubs are duplicating cost infrastructure (race entries, timetabling, coordination etc) and are obsessed with mounting championships rather than races - A case in point, I actually have two race cars in the garage, they can fit in all sorts of championships and I would quite like to race perhaps every third weekend in the summer in many of the races organised by the clubs just mentioned, (such as Formula saloons, Alfa Romeo, Centurion, Eurosaloons, BARC saloons Britcar, super coupes, Britsports, Special GT etc), but really just at my favorite circuits. What I am not going to do is join yet another organising club as a racing member, stump up a championship registration fee, buy special or control tyres, buy special fuel (unless it is Shell Optimax) or go to some dusty & dangerous little circuit in Kent or Wales (unless the entry fee is low!) - you get the picture, all I want is a bit of fun without a lot of hassle and additional expense. Also, unless you do join all of these clubs it is very difficult to get an overview of what is racing where, you have to trawl through lots of different websites, download endless .pdf files of regulations etc. We need a central source to see what races are on and to get entry forms from. If its too much hassle I will just find some other leisure activity.

There is demand - the BRSCC held several open races 2002 & 2003 with entry fees at realistic prices to fill up space allocated to failed championships and they were sell outs, probably generated more income than the championship rounds at the same meetings.

The days when championships can be so fussy about what you can and cannot have or race are gone, we should be providing races that fit the cars that are out there rather than demanding specific cars. There are exceptions and such championships should be properly promoted by interested parties or manufacturers, but for club racing this should be the case. If you are worried about equality specify minimum weights and intake restrictors - these do not cost too much. Smaller organising clubs are beginning to realise this but the bigger clubs are too set in their ways with their rigidly single make championships.

Track time : who has been to a race meeting at a circuit licensed for 30 cars and most of the championships field just 10 or 15 - all that spare track time is lost, and we are paying for that because the entry fees go up to compensate for fewer people racing. We should demand better value. Perhaps we could combine qualifying sessions & races, or have an open pit lane in the morning for you to go out and qualify or test as you please, hold meetings that do not mix single seaters and saloons so that there is potential for more crossover between championships (benefits of two drivers sharing costs and cars in different races) and offer the drivers already at the meeting an additional race in another championship at a discounted entry fee. This is often done by small clubs on an emergency basis but why not make it part of the day, even put on a race of winners as the last race, so that the top five in each of the preceding races go into a final shoot out race. Good for spectators.

Discuss.

[ss_collins]

don't knock small kent circuits! some good point there

[Keith Wheeler]

Got to agree with all that. I started racing in my mid - 30s because I didn't have the 'disposable income' until then. I stopped after five seasons due to weekend work commitments but, as I have access to various rental racers, I would also like to do the odd race at my 'local' circuits.
However, I too am put off by the requirement to enter various organising clubs, register for various championships, etc, etc, all at great expense for the sake of the odd race.
Let's have one single 'racing' fee added to the race licence, and more Allcomers races at each meeting. You never know, if more part-time racers are able to compete agian, some might even come back full time.....

[MikeM]

Keith, that's similar to what BRSCC have done for Kent engined FF's this year - central entry covers all their regional championships. At this early stage it seems to be attracting more people to try different circuits.

[ActiveMS]

Agree with most points raised above.
However there is a place for one make championships, as long as there are enough cars on the grid.

Ive always been against the clubs charging a membership fee, especially when they charge so much for track time. I would like to see the clubs justify their membership fees. The odd newsletter and **** website does not look like £140 per year.

Paying almost £300 a year before I even shell out for race entries is quite steep (includes registration fee).

I think clubs should now up the minimum number to 20 cars registered for each race 3 weeks before or cancel the individual races that dont attract enough racers. No more T cars for example.

Also, it doesnt help when track hire is so expensive... come on does Brands really make a loss @ £18000 per day!!!!! especially when marshals arent even paid and most staff onsite are from the club itself rather than venue staff.

Off now to stomp round the office.

[Slayer]

I agree that one-make championships are good in the short term for competitors and the chosen racing car manufacturer alike. However I believe that, in the long term, they are destroying the racing car manufacturing industry in this country.

When a one-make championship falls out of favour with the competitors or the supporting production car manufacturuer, for example, where does that leave the racing car manufacturer? His short-term gain and steady income for a few years has now disappeared and he goes with it, due to the onslaught of one-make series that he doesn't have a contract for and the lack of series that allow more than one manufacturer.

Reynard had a similar situation to this with the Premier1 debacle. A lot of money invested in it was spent for nothing when the series never happened. A proposed entry into F3000 that may have helped the company couldn't happen due to the one-make contract the FIA had with Lola.

Now, this may apply more to national level racing than club-level stuff but where do you draw the line between those two? Plus, in series like hillclimb, a lot of the technology and components filter their way down from national motorsport. Soon there aren't any car manufacturers in the country and then where do competitors obtain the essential part of motor racing?

I intend to start a racing car manufacturing business very shortly for club-level motorsport. I would like to believe that in the future, I could expand to a national level but when I think objectively and look upon the market in its current state, I don't think that it will be possible. That explains why I am so bitter and twisted about this particular issue .

[Peter Mallett]

There is agood point about duplicating fees. The CTCRC (was CSCC) races are administered by the BARC. That equates to two membership fees but we don't pay championship registration to the BARC.

However we don't run any races either.

Top Hat is a race "series" and cars fron The HSCC, CTCRC and App K historics qualify. This one is a good example of soper's philosophy.

One that has been missed is the MGCC. They run good grids at five meetings per year, including a big annual festival at Silverstone. They also provide races for various BARC and BRSCC meetings throughout the season.

[simes43]

I like the 20 cars registered before the event rule. Circuits, clubs and specatators want to see full grids be them a mix of different makes or horsepower.

A matrix of what could race with what would allow organisers to fill grids without hurting the championships that can offer a grid full of cars.

One last thing. How about running all the poorly attended championships at one meeting and the well supported at another. Each would benefit or not from their success and pay accordingly.

I am fed up with supporting and having to work around T-cars,FPA and other inflated egos.

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome to the forum soper and Simes.

[Chris Y]

I always think it would be somewhat easier if there were no clubs at all, or maybe just one big one for the whole of club racing in the UK.

If there were no clubs, that would make it a lot easier for the 'casual' competitor to race just at his/her local circuit, and not have to worry about excessive entry fees and championship registrations. The circuits would organise the races, and the competitor would liase directly with the circuit. Maybe this would encourage more of an 'open market' between the circuits, and costs would come down? Then again, maybe pigs will be landing at Heathrow by the end of the week.

Alternatively, what if there was one big club, kind of like if the MSA organised races, then it would enable people like 'soper' to do whatever championship/series they desired on a particular weekend, without joining a dozen other clubs. Perhaps that one club would then have more influence over things like circuit hire, and would be more efficient with money, etc..

Makes you think doesn't it? There are so many ways that racing in this country could be done better..

[ActiveMS]

What also bothers me is that some championships/series who have 25+ grid sizes are given 'support' status at some meets and dumped at the far end of the paddock and given the worst race slots during the day, when all the other grids are having problems keeping close to 15 cars.

Im sure its down to the clubs bias towards certain people/series.

[Stephen Green]

Welcome to Ten Tenths Soper and Simes.

As a non racer may I make a couple of observations?

1. Soper, you have made some very valid arguements regarding the national club racing scene so why not take them one step further and write to the BRSCC or BARC and put your suggestions to them? The worse case scenario is you are no worse off than you are now.

2. You mention the cost at Brands and how do they substantiate the cost to clubs. Well, the Council Tax for Brands Hatch alone is in the region of £750,000 per year and that is before you take into account the cost of employing circuit staff.

3. It is true that most motor racing meetings run with a very enthusiastic and large volunteer force. Thank goodness you do or costs would be even higher!

4. It has been said in many other threads but people want to see full grids of cars. It isn't so important to the spectator that there may be 3 different classes within a race, they want to see lots of cars, overtaking and the odd spinner etc. I believe that if by amalgamating series or, by running 'open' entries to cars outside of the normal championship runners, you will achieve close to full grids and attract spectators back to motorsport.

In the long term, if you/we can get the spectators back through the gates, then I believe entry fees will fall in real terms.

Speaking for a minute as a marshal, look at the meetings the marshals support year after year, it's clubs like MGCC etc who offer full grids and excellent racing. If marshals support meetings for that reason then its reasonable to assume spectators will do the same?

[simes43]

Thanks for your welcome Peter.

[ActiveMS]

Valid points Stephen, didnt realise the Government albeit the local council was getting a substational amount of our money too! (does make you wander what they spend it on in Kent)

In regards to the spectators through gates, unfortunately the tracks never pass any of this revenue onto the competitor or club unless the event is HUGE (eg. BTCC or Superbikes), so spectator numbers dont really make any difference to the average club racer.

I do think it is worth approaching clubs like the BRSCC, but I think I already know what the initial response would be.(head in sand springs to mind)

Almalgamation is a good idea as long as its done sensibly.

Indeed, thank goodness for the volunteers!!! Many thanks to those that do.

[Stephen Green]

I would run your ideas past Bernie C at the BRSCC as he seems to be a forward thinking guy and, if he can get fuller grids the club makes more money as well!

If we are able to get more spectators through the gates and the circuits make some decent money from that then it's quite possible the hire charges to clubs may be lowered or frozen. Certainly worth a try I think.

[MikeM]

I do think that BRSCC are more interested in listening at the moment so it's probably a good time to try them with ideas

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by ActiveMS
Valid points Stephen, didnt realise the Government albeit the local council was getting a substational amount of our money too! (does make you wander what they spend it on in Kent)

I think you will find the government gets all the business tax from circuits and other businesses, the local council then gets a percentage back. Thats why our domestic council tax is so high.

In regards to the spectators through gates, unfortunately the tracks never pass any of this revenue onto the competitor or club unless the event is HUGE (eg. BTCC or Superbikes), so spectator numbers dont really make any difference to the average club racer.

I was under the impression that the circuits had to pay the race organisers for the privilage of BTCC, Super Bikes and others such as Champ cars being staged at thier tracks. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[andy97]

I agree with virtually all that Soper and Chris Y say. More Open/ F Libre type races and the opportunity to race regionally is the way ahead for me. Lets build a quorum of views via this thread and present the results to the MSA and the major organising clubs - its about time they reacted to what the customer wants (by customer I mean the person who is paying most - the drivers).

As for the organising clubs issue - I think that the MSA should have a major role here, in banging heads together and forcing amalgamation and rationalisation of series and of clubs. Does the MSA have a policy/ strategy for the future of Club racing for example? It should be remembered that without club racing there might not have been Colin Chapman, Eric Broadley, Adrian Reynard, Patrick Head etc etc and the subsequent rise to prominence of the UK motor racing industry.

[Keith Wheeler]

falcemob, you are correct. Championships like BTCC, BSB charge tens of thousands of pounds for just turning up, and they don't pay for track hire like smaller clubs do either. That is why Jonathan Palmer moved the BTCC and BSB to the Indy circuit at Brands rather than the GP circuit, which has higher operating costs.
Also, for some circuits, it takes a few days to convert to / back from the Superbike circuit set-up, with consequent loss of revenue for those extra days (no track days, etc).

[Werewolf]

Simple question,do any of the clubs( barc brscc et al) actually work together in any capcitiy or are they just interested in whats good for themselves individually.If they do, why do we need so many clubs in the first place? Or is it a case of the old guard being reluctant to change and full of their self own importance and inflated egos.
as a first year competitor it would have been easier to register with one club in overall charge of all racing so i could pick and choose when and where to race.

[Stephen Green]

The major clubs do work together in many ways and also liaise with the circuit owners.

[Slowcoach]

welcome Soper - many very good points raised, I shall pick just one which stopped me racing a few times last year, in an effort to reduce costs I decided not to travel to some of the farther flung circuits on my championship calender last year and decided to try and do other club's races locally, but by the time I would have joined the other clubs and paid the registration fees it would have been cheaper to drive the 300 miles to croft with my club for example (but not time wise)so I ended up doing neither.
Answer- if my memory serves me correctly Formula saloons used to allow you to compete in individual rounds by paying a £50 temporary membership fee for the one day-this made it worthwhile doing the odd round. If the organising clubs had some form of pro rata 'extra' temporary fee they might be able to get extra people on the grid, avoiding cherry pickers is easy - just give full members priority up to the closing date and then it's first come first served.

[Rod Birley]

Wow, lots of points. The "council tax" from Brands goes to central office, not the local office i.e. not Kent. It was £380,000 so if it has gone up to £750,000 that is some rise. The BARC S/E centre do not charge registration fees for any of their championships or series and will even hire you a transponder for £5 a day. At meetings they organise they try to provide a second race for £50.

[ss_collins]

I'm in the forunate situation of racing in a single seater series that usually has over 100 points scorers at the end of the year and usually musters 40+ cars per meeting

From where I'm sat, in under ten grands worth of race car the state of club motorsport looks pretty healthy - problem is most of that health seems to have outqualified me! Maybe thats why it looks so healthy...


On a serious note - why is it that most 750MC series can get a great entry and the club never really have to worry whether a meeting will have enough marshals/entries, when the other clubs are in crisis...

and why is it that you don't hear of any problem in the short oval world either...

Perhaps certain people in the sport should swallow thier pride and realise the Formula Vee / FF1600 etc etc.. i a better spectacle, healthier and clearly better all round than most 'big' series. I personally would like to see Bruce Goddard visit the Spedeweekend at Ipswich, as well as the 750MC summer festival. And tommorow I'm going to tell him so.

(oh and the pride swallowing bit wasn't aimed at bruce!)

[R59]

Soper, welcome to the forum.

Like you, I've been at it for just about 15 years too, and I remember the heydays of AutoItalia, with Freddie Moss in that beastly Mangusta, the Lancia Stratos (replica), Maserati Bi-Turbo, and other exotics, and the droves of Alfa's with godzilla conversions far beyond the level of the old Chris Knott Alfa series... Nostaligia, it ain't what it used to be!

Any road up, to the gist of the thread.

This season, I moved to Formula Saloons after changing my car for the first time in 14 years. Alas, it's not ready to race yet due to work commitments, and engine woes, but it will be ready, oh yes, it will!

FS has suffered from lack of entries this year, leading to rounds 2 & 3 at Croft being canned. The reasons are typically the same as mine, lack of time to prepare the car or even race it.

There are other championships in a similar boat.

In my opinion, which I believe has been echoed by others in the past, one make championships (saloons) should be manufacturer supported, and when the maker pulls the plug, the championship goes with it, not left to dribble on and dwindle (rust) away forever and a day.

The Super Coupe series is the right idea, be even that isn't very well supported at times, and they've run two grids before, with a dozen starters in each, where the track licence was for 30 or thereabouts starters. Should have been one race.

For "fill - in" invitation races to work, they have to be able to work on short notice entries, like on the day even! Turn up, pay your money, race.

I also like the idea of an open practice session in the morning, then rack up the cars according to lap times, giving close racing. This won't work with championship racing. But do we REALLY need championships at our lowly level, wouldn't it be better to leave that to National A level and above.

I could ***** about championships that seem to have appeared and taken potential competitors from other well established series', but that doesn't achieve anything.

The fact is, there are lots of cars out there, spread over even more championships, and I agree with Soper on this one - too many organisers, which is probably the root cause.

Perhaps we've been brainwashed for far too long into the mess that we're in. Yes, WE are in. It's up to all of us to find a solution.

Forwards, onwards, upwards. Or should it be the cry of my mentor Father Jack Hackett of the Craggy Island parochial house - "nuns!, nuns!, reverse!, reverse!"

Rob.