team japan hits wall hard

[Mr Jinxx]

It's the old debate about run-off areas. There was a large area there, but it appears the gravel trap was the problem, in flipping the car, which is an oft-debated issue of gravel-traps vs. concrete run off. I confess, I'm not a huge fan of gravel traps as the first line of defense ... I'd rather see abrasive tarmac (a la Paul Ricard) and then gravel at the outer limits. And always tyres. Hate concrete walls, particularly where there is a chance of hitting it at an angle of >45 degrees. Skimming a concrete wall is one thing, hitting it is very dangerous, and I do hope he's OK. That sort of an impact can do a lot of unseen damage, I've seen it first hand, and I hate it

[I love 04s]

i would be intrigued to see the crash as well, has anybody got a clip of it?

[MRJUCY]

There is a very long run off at that corner the problem I think was he actually came off at the end of the corner rather then going straight on which usually happens there & hit the wall along the next straight. I was there live & haven't seen a decent replay but I thought he hit the tyre wall first which sticks out slightly further & then continued on to the concrete wall.

[I love 04s]

Funny you should say that, I heard from someone else that he clipped/flew over the edge of the tyre wall then hit the concrete wall. The pics suggest otherwise though.......

[Mr Jinxx]

I think the pic on page one of this thread clearly shows that he was a passenger well before the tyres/wall.

[Hepatic]

some more pics (inc grid girls!) are here >> http://crashpa.net/search_results.as...&keywords=2005

[fordlover]

Originally Posted by I love 04s

i would be intrigued to see the crash as well, has anybody got a clip of it?

the only footage that was shown is the very end of the crash with the car coming to rest, nothing more than that.

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by MRJUCY

I was there live & haven't seen a decent replay but I thought he hit the tyre wall first which sticks out slightly further & then continued on to the concrete wall.

From the tracks left in the sand and grass (which I should have taken a photo of) he slid just pass the tyres and impacted the wall itself. Here are some other pics I took of the incident, including one of the impact (click thumbnails to enlarge):

[Camo]

Great pics....what's the camera you used?

[MCWB]

I used a Nikon D70 with Nikkor 70-200 VR lens. The 80-400 VR would probably have been better for the Japanese crash, but you can't have everything I suppose. If you're interested in more pics from the weekend, mine are here: http://www.trentwallis.com/gallery/v...-Eastern-Creek

[500mm]

Sorry to post PR statements but in view of the concern show on this board I thought it appropriate.


Eastern Creek, Sydney – Hayanari Shimoda has been declared fit this morning following his high-speed accident in the A1 Grand Prix of Nations race held yesterday at the Eastern Creek Raceway. He has spent the night in the High Dependency Unit of Westmead hospital under the care of the trauma team who discharged him today after confirming all the tests they ran on him were fine.

LINK

[twig]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

The safety features did their job - so I would say the circuit is not too dangerous for these cars.

The safety features of the car did it's job. I don't see how anything aside from the medical crew lent itself to the safety of the driver yesterday.

The gravel flipped the thing, it happens - lets face it, not all the time, but at any circuit. In that case, tarmac would have been better - but only in that case.

The wall on the other hand, should definatelly have been protected. I looked at the wall when i arrived before the race and thought that if it was possible to hit that wall at a bad angle and with some pace - then why isn't it protected?
The damage and injuries would have been less had there of been tyres.

People also talking about the corner were saying that there is "bugger all run-off for 220km/h", but it isn't as though they can move the banks back and move the walls as well.

The A1 car held up well today - because the track didn't. KB, if you say the track held up because the driver survived, then that is foolish.

[Hazza]

Remember, this is (was) an international level Motorcycle circuit, and caters as such for that and the V8 Supercars. So removing the gravel isn't really an option.

However that barrier at the end of the straight is an issue, but I guess if the drag strip wasn't being used then it wouldn't be there.

[D.R.T.]

I was sitting at Turn 1 for the whole weekend including when the accident occurred, I felt that run off was not a problem. To me there is enough distance between the track and the wall.

However as mentioned a more dense and longer tyre barrier system is needed and I am sure will be implemented before next years event.

[maximus]

Actually, its interesting to note the car was in two before it hit the wall. Awful crash, I'm glad he's ok. It was a great advertisement for the safety of these cars, but that wall should have been covered with tyres.

[PVDA]

The Phillip Island Circuit (where the Aust Bike GP's are now held) has had a major upgrade in recent years and all the riders are complaining that the large size of the gravel is a cause of concern for them.

On the car side of things, it has almost eliminated cars hitting walls but there are now more roll overs as cars try to go through a gravel trap sideways.

[Net-Ranger]

Originally Posted by Paddockman

...PS. Brazils poor performance from Mr Piquet is down to him having substantially less courage than others. Walls a bit close for you Nelson!!

He needs then a Champcars/Atlantics street course closewall racing class maybe...

[Mr Jinxx]

Paul Ricard has just won an award for the best safety/facilities circuit. No gravel traps - just graded tarmac run-off areas. More expensive, but definitely the way to go. Put gravel at the end, if you like, not at the start of the run-off area.

So very pleased to hear he's OK, by the way. It looked bloody horrific, so it's thanks to the car's safety structure, to the fabled Japanese toughness, and no thanks to the gravel trap.

[Paddockman]

Originally Posted by Mr Jinxx

Paul Ricard has just won an award for the best safety/facilities circuit. No gravel traps - just graded tarmac run-off areas. More expensive, but definitely the way to go. Put gravel at the end, if you like, not at the start of the run-off area.

So very pleased to hear he's OK, by the way. It looked bloody horrific, so it's thanks to the car's safety structure, to the fabled Japanese toughness, and no thanks to the gravel trap.

Sorry to be a purist but tarmac run off areas just ruin circuits completely, giving the driver an easy option of running wide if he overcommits. I know saftey wise they are a good idea but just how far down this road are we going to go!! Also I don't know about anyone else but I think circuits like that just look like giant car parks and come across as completely sterile and faceless, Bring back grass!!

[Mr Jinxx]

I know what you mean, Paddockman, and I agree with you. Grass is even worse, though! Hit that on a damp day/frosty morning, and you're going straight into whatever is at the end of it very quickly indeed.

I don't know the answer ... the Paul Ricard run-offs are the safest, but not great to look at or spectate; gravel can be fine in most cases, but terrible in others; grass is more aesthetic but dangerous. You have to slow the cars down before they hit whatever they're going to hit, and then make that whatever as compliant as possible.

Maybe a really abrasive initial run-off area first, that totally screws your tyres if you go off? There's the penalty, but retains some safety

[Woolley]

Personally if you have to go to tarmac I'd put the grass first so that there is a penalty for running wide, followed by a sealed surface and then some gravel for good measure. It should be remembered that tarmac does nothing to slow cars with mechanical faults or missing wheels, especially when wet. Anyone who saw Dino Morelli's accident at the Nurburgring in F3000 will remember the complete lack of any retardation whne he missed the gravel trap.

[twig]

I agree with the idea of grass first - dirties your tyres, could spin the car, generally just unsettles it - so it would penalise drivers.

The thing about Paul Ricard, is however clever the design is, (and i really like the idea of the graded tarmac) whilst it isn't good for the spectators and purists, it's fine in that regard, because no spectators ever see races there - so it isn't a problem.

[Mr Jinxx]

OK then, how about a metre or two of grass (to penalise the small over-run), followed by a short area of really tyre-buggering, seriously-retarding tarmac to penalise the big over-run), followed by a small gravel trap (to stop anyone who's managed to get so far off line), followed by a tyre wall (the car should be seriously slowed-down by then)?

Total distance from track shouldn't be as long as Donington grass (Craner) or Paul Ricard tarmac, etc. Pick your corners

[foreversideways]

See Nigel Mansels thoughts on this issue last week in Autosport.

[jondownunder]

Originally Posted by Woolley

It should be remembered that tarmac does nothing to slow cars with mechanical faults or missing wheels, especially when wet. Anyone who saw Dino Morelli's accident at the Nurburgring in F3000 will remember the complete lack of any retardation whne he missed the gravel trap.

I totally agree with that point, but I'm sure Morelli did go over a wet gravel trap didn't he? Not that it struck off much speed when his throttle was struck open and he had no brakes. I do recall at least one occasion in the F3 Euro Series this year when a car (Carbone?) had broken front suspension and the tarmac failed to slow it much before it reached the tyres.