ALMS 2012 Discussion

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Irrelevant... the point is that many people have left the sport, or chosen to to race in the ALMS at times because they cannot compete. If you have the money to compete, a team can be put together rather quickly.

Create a market friendly for competitors and fans, sponsors and teams (and fans) will come out in droves. Good for all parties.

Chris

[JAG]

American racing isn't playing second fiddle to European racing, Audi would be in the ALMS if the NA importer funded the program, same goes for any manufactuer. What cannot be relied upon are European funded programs competing in the ALMS, that happened in the early days due to no European equivalent.

Everyone's fighting for the same manufactuers, come 2014 Porsche will be in the WEC and have an engine program in GA. How best to attract them to the ALMS, allowing their P1, insisting they build an ALMS specific chassis or being an engine supplier for low cost chassis like LMPC's?

As for Sebring, it's now an international race, prior to 1998 my perception at least was it of being a longer than usual IMSA event. I tuned in to a ten minute highlights program see the FIA GT1 Panoz. At that time I was still bemouning the passing of IMSA GTP's at Daytona and wishing the lastest GT1's competed there as it was still classed as the big NA sportscar race.

1998 - http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...998-03-22.html

1999 - http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...999-03-21.html

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Create a market friendly for competitors and fans, sponsors and teams (and fans) will come out in droves. Good for all parties.

Chris

Trouble is, how capable is the current IMSA management of creating that market? After all, this is the same IMSA management that came up with the stunning, second-to-none TV coverage deal the series currently has....

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

If the Owner of the series ends their relationship with the ACO, why on earth would the same owners then give one of their premier races, Sebring to the competition? You do realize that Panoz Inc. owns the lease to Sebring right?

I do, what inclination has Panoz shown in bankrolling the series or a P1 entry as in seasons gone by?

The only time you see him is when launching a car are at an ACO occasion, the complaint being he's too close to them. Unless he's up for a costly long-term battle with GA I'd have thought his fall back position would be to ensure Sebring remains NA's most prestigous sportscar race and concentrate on his Delta Wing stake.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

How best to attract them to the ALMS, allowing their P1, insisting they build an ALMS specific chassis or being an engine supplier for low cost chassis like LMPC's?

Nobody has suggested what you are objecting to.

As for Sebring, it's now an international race, prior to 1998 my perception at least was it of being a longer than usual IMSA event. I tuned in to a ten minute highlights program see the FIA GT1 Panoz. At that time I was still bemouning the passing of IMSA GTP's at Daytona and wishing the lastest GT1's competed there as it was still classed as the big NA sportscar race.

1998 - http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...998-03-22.html

1999 - http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...999-03-21.html

So IMSA/ALMS should just die out/continue to deteriorate so that YOU can still see Sebring as being an International race? Honestly, I think the survival of top flight sportscar racing, even at a National level, is more important than the opinions of people who are unlikely to go to many North American rounds of an IMSA sanctioned series.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

I do, what inclination has Panoz shown in bankrolling the series or a P1 entry as in seasons gone by?

The only time you see him is when launching a car are at an ACO occasion, the complaint being he's too close to them. Unless he's up for a costly long-term battle with GA, I'd have thought his fall back position would be to ensure Sebring remains NA's most prestigous sportscar race and concentrates on his Delta Wing involvement.

Given the prices being asked for Panoz Inc. assets... it seems he is still comfortable paying as needed, if needed at all currently.

There were considerations for this year to bankroll P1 entries... didn't happen though.

Panoz launching a car? Why are you even talking about this... completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand.

Delta Wing is a no hoper in my opinion, a shame any money is being wasted on this project at all, when it should go to more productive ventures.

Sebring will still get a very large spectator attendance, even if the field quality erodes further from where it is now... and believe me, the quality even with WEC is nowhere near what is was before ILMC was created.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by KA

Trouble is, how capable is the current IMSA management of creating that market? After all, this is the same IMSA management that came up with the stunning, second-to-none TV coverage deal the series currently has....

Unfortunately, your point is very valid. I don't think it's possible, a change in management, and possibly ownership may be required.

[Jonerz]

It will be interesting to see if IMSA elects to maintain the relationship with the ACO, hoping that it bolsters the health of ACO-type racing and pays off with big grids of factory cars at Lime Rock and Mosport as well as at Sebring.

Or if they listen to their few remaining stake holders and move away from the ACO to a degree where they have more freedom for self-determination and the ability to give the Greg Pickets of the world the opportunity to buy a car that race-in, race-out give him a shot at winning the thing overall.

Chris

EDIT: And the second doesn't mean all new chassis. Do like GTP did. Start with effectively the same car, but then make more sensible rules around them for the American market. It also can mean, if the ACO wants Sebring so bad, they could send their LMP1 class to Sebring to kickoff the season before the LMP2-GTE-Am cars launch at say Paul Ricard or Imola or something for round to of the LMP1 World Championship, rounds 1 for the rest.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Nobody has suggested what you are objecting to.



So IMSA/ALMS should just die out/continue to deteriorate so that YOU can still see Sebring as being an International race? Honestly, I think the survival of top flight sportscar racing, even at a National level, is more important than the opinions of people who are unlikely to go to many North American rounds of an IMSA sanctioned series.

The ALMS has provided ten years of great sportscar racing, the ACO have eighty years experience running the biggest race in the world, that to me is the kind of relationship you don't give up lightly.

A decade ago NASCAR threw their weight behind GA thinking they could build large, competitive fields which fans would flock to see. They failed on all counts and the series is in the process of a make or break re-boot.

Series of all shapes and forms have looked winners in the planning stages, I'd be all for an independant ALMS if I believed it would succeed. It would be a shame to turn their backs on such a productive relationship (for both parties), the ALMS already have
freedom to tailor regs to their own needs afterall it was their call to bring in LMPC, GTC and turn away the R8.

[Jonerz]

Yeah, I think the confused management decisions we've thought could be solved by axing the pressure from the ACO - but that may very well not be the case.

Chris

[Mal]

Maybe ALMS should scrap p1 as LMS has, but introduce a new free rules protoype class to remaining ACO based classes. Then sell the rights to Sebring to the WEC and keep PLM as its prestige event.

Having said that - if more manufacturers come in to ACO racing especially ones such as Toyota & Nissan who have a massive US operation maybe they will run the American series as well as WEC

[JAG]

http://murphythebear.com/blog/index....-with-demands/

One point, I understand any team is free to enter a WEC round, although they can be turned away.

[Matt]

http://youtu.be/frz5KtsfnSM
Bring that back, exactly as it was, and all will be okay.

[Jonerz]

I'd gladly take this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqRXuP1jkNw
this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6qbd...eature=related
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTDUU07JU0

At least in spirit. Of course well promoted, and with rules stability. With out those you have nothing anyways.

Chris

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

The ALMS has provided ten years of great sportscar racing, the ACO have eighty years experience running the biggest race in the world, that to me is the kind of relationship you don't give up lightly.

Ok, so experience means they do a great job? ACO/FIA have collectively screwed this up as many times as everyone else has, and they are doing it again. When you end up in an abusive relationship, that no longer works for you, you end it.

Series of all shapes and forms have looked winners in the planning stages, I'd be all for an independant ALMS if I believed it would succeed. It would be a shame to turn their backs on such a productive relationship (for both parties), the ALMS already have
freedom to tailor regs to their own needs afterall it was their call to bring in LMPC, GTC and turn away the R8.

It no longer is productive to the ALMS, it is counterproductive.

------------------------------------------

Re; ALMS dropping P1....

While P1 isn't strong, at least there are some cars, and the participants want to compete for overall race wins at ALL ALMS races. That doesn't sound like moving to P2 is what the entrants want.

-------------------------------------------

Breaking it down, exactly what is the draw of WEC?

It is simply Peugeot vs. Audi.... that's really it, and more field filler.

A couple of relatively quiet cars, with some great marketing behind them, creating hype. A four car race.

--------------------------------------------

This year in the ALMS, even with anemic fields, I think we've actually had closer finishes on average, and at least equal racing. Mazda vs Aston.. not quite the cache, but then it hasn't had the marketing either.

Open up the restrictors, make them the fastest sportscars in the world, open up the engine rules, keep the loud, fast and exciting. Great for marketing. Open up GTC, maybe even share GTC rules with Grand Am. Do more enduros.

Do a couple of combined events with Grand Am even... invite them to Sebring to run the 12. Do a combined, but seperate race at Watkins Glen.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Open up the restrictors, make them the fastest sportscars in the world, open up the engine rules, keep the loud, fast and exciting. Great for marketing. .

I wonder how fast a LMPC car could go unrestricted? and how good would it sound without the mandated mufflers?

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by joeb

I wonder how fast a LMPC car could go unrestricted? and how good would it sound without the mandated mufflers?

With straight pipes or all sorts of the tom-foolery manufacturers play with to tune exhaust notes to taste, they could sound a hell of a lot better than they do now. (Less anemic, in comparison to the rest of the field, excluding GTC which are equally anemic sounding.)

Chris

[Ultimo]

It is shocking how quiet some of the cars are. The LMPC, GTC, and even LMP1 cars in this series are too quiet and tame sounding.

The Lola/AM sounds great, but is far too quiet.

[NightStalk3r]

GTC should run the Supercup exhaust.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I'd gladly take this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqRXuP1jkNw
this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6qbd...eature=related
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTDUU07JU0

At least in spirit. Of course well promoted, and with rules stability. With out those you have nothing anyways.

Chris

None of those cars looked good.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Matt

None of those cars looked good.

I disagree. The Porsche RS Spyder is absolutely stunning. The Lola B06's were just plain mean looking. The Ferrari 333SP is beautiful and the Riley & Scott Mk. III is one of my favorite cars ever. The 911 GT1 certainly has to be considered one of the best looking race cars of all time... Surely the mid-80s GTO/GTU cars aren't more attractive in your mind. I understand the Mustang, but the rest aren't that great. The racing was great, and people had access to winning race cars, which is important and something I want.

Regardless, I'm not saying bring those cars back. I'm saying I want sports car racing (prototypes and GTs) that provides that level of entertainment.

Chris

[Danske]

Originally Posted by Danske

I vote for either a spec support race series or...

Originally Posted by John Dagys

Ultimate Racing Championship = spec McLaren MP4-12C championship, according to a source I just got off the phone with

Woohoo! What do I win?

[Jonerz]

That sounds pretty cool!

Chris

[Fogelhund]

It's actually the Unlimited Racing Championship Series, (according to the Media Advisory) not Ultimate... but in either case, not the most fitting name.

[Sellysell]

Rumers going around twitter is that it will bring the mpc4 over here, for its on serise or something like that, also could be a gateway for other gt3s. I am on my phone so posting the links is a little to much work.


Murphythebear said something about the serise will involve the mcleraen and Daggey(?) said a fame british manufactour is coming over, and everything will be revealed friday.

Also the bear said The circuit of americus is looking for sportscar series and alms is not one of them.

I dont think any of this has been posted on the forums if it has please disregard it.