2014 British F3 Silly Season

[the insider]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

And F3 Open with 10 events (2 Winter Series and 8 Main Series) plus 19 more test days £330,000 approx.

Brakedisc, it's hilarious that people might describe an F3 driver as a "pay driver."

But it's not proper F3 is it? Just posh formula renault for no hopers. Nice to see you step up to "proper f3" should be up there with Mick and Felix.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by the insider

Just posh formula renault for no hopers.

Whatever, clearly never seen it. Much more competitive than any National F3 for several years

[brakedisc]

"Brakedisc, it's hilarious that people might describe an F3 driver as a "pay driver." "

Indeed, because as we all know too well it is daddy who pays and this is the problem. If you do not have the funds you are going nowhere.

Years ago small teams could build an F3 car for reasonable money and each of these teams needed the best driver they could get. What do we have now? Mini F1 with 2 manufacturers. Cheque book motor racing.

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

"Brakedisc, it's hilarious that people might describe an F3 driver as a "pay driver." "

Indeed, because as we all know too well it is daddy who pays and this is the problem. If you do not have the funds you are going nowhere.

Years ago small teams could build an F3 car for reasonable money and each of these teams needed the best driver they could get. What do we have now? Mini F1 with 2 manufacturers. Cheque book motor racing.

Too true I'm afraid! But I don't think motorsport is ever going to return to what it was in the 60's, 70's and even to some extent the 80's in the same way that football and other sports which are all commercially driven now won't either.

We know only too well that talent and hard work are not enough. Without money and or the right connections it is incredibly difficult to make your way in this sport. But that said no one is forcing is to put ourselves through this. We can walk away anytime we like but for now we choose not to.

British F3 has a great heritage behind it. Lets see what this season brings. I hope it is good and not just the last vestigas of a once great championship limping on into oblivion.

In the unlikely case that there are any team principles reading this that have a bit of funding and want to put a proven and hungry driver in one of their cars then you know where to find us!

Dominic Malvern

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by FFfan

We know only too well that talent and hard work are not enough. Without money and or the right connections it is incredibly difficult to make your way in this sport. But that said no one is forcing is to put ourselves through this. We can walk away anytime we like but for now we choose not to.

Even though I'm not a Scott Malvern fan, given the current grid he'd be runaway champion unless Cammish gets that JTR seat!

If Cammish does get the JTR seat, he's soon going to be bored with his career, because nobody will be near him...

[edenrace]

Just to clarify things...Dallara are the only constructor who have built cars to the 2012 FIA regulations

[brakedisc]

"Just to clarify things...Dallara are the only constructor who have built cars to the 2012 FIA regulations "

We are not talking about 2012 we are hopefully talking about the future and Mygale are building a car to the "new " regulations.

Now if F3 and all the other Formula controlled by the FIA were to run with reasonable regulations that were not all about high cost materials and electronics, needing huge teams to run the cars, perhaps there would be plenty of manufacturers involved.

Dear old Bernie and his cronies have shown the FIA that there are mugs out there who will pay big bucks to play elitist sports that can make a few folk lots of money while shaft those that have talent and work hard.

[Juntos]

If you take a look at the provisional entry list what you can see is a bunch of underrated rich Asian pals. British F3 golden era is past and is basking in misery today. All the championship need is a wampum pouch.

[edenrace]

If you remember it used to be rich Brazilians....whats the difference??

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by edenrace

If you remember it used to be rich Brazilians....whats the difference??

Huge difference. Senna was not known for being Chinese.

Talent - is it still in British F3 dictionary? We still find the word in Encyclopaedia Britannica.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Talent is in the British F3 dictionary, but in a much, much smaller scale.

In recent years the series has gone from producing the next F1 stars to producing guys who can't even forge a career in Europe...

[bella]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

...to producing guys who can't even afford to forge a career in Europe...

fixed that for you

[edenrace]

2013 was a transition year but Jordan King is doing a good job.
2012 Jack Harvey
2011 Nasr
2010 Vergne
2009 Ricciardo
It is so easy to knock things but just try and make things work and see how hard it is

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by edenrace

2013 was a transition year but Jordan King is doing a good job.
2012 Jack Harvey
2011 Nasr
2010 Vergne
2009 Ricciardo
It is so easy to knock things but just try and make things work and see how hard it is

Edenrace makes a valid point about the Champions (esp Vergne and Ricciardo who are F1 drivers) from recent years but in addition the following drivers all recently competed in British F3 and now have F1 drives
2009 Max Chilton Marcus Ericsson
2011 Kevin Magnussen

Not bad for a series that can't produce drivers who can even forge a career in Europe

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Edenrace makes a valid point about the Champions (esp Vergne and Ricciardo who are F1 drivers) from recent years but in addition the following drivers all recently competed in British F3 and now have F1 drives
2009 Max Chilton Marcus Ericsson
2011 Kevin Magnussen

Not bad for a series that can't produce drivers who can even forge a career in Europe

No disrespect Richard B, I am a big fan of British F3 and its heritage and have probably followed it for longer than many on here but I hardly think Max Chilton's performance (over 3 seasons) had very much to do with him going on to become an F1 driver

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Okay, so I was wrong...

...meanwhile, Scorpio are eyeing their own entry.

Expect to add Alex Lynn to that list soon.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Deemun

No disrespect Richard B, I am a big fan of British F3 and its heritage and have probably followed it for longer than many on here but I hardly think Max Chilton's performance (over 3 seasons) had very much to do with him going on to become an F1 driver

I totally agree that there are a few "more money than tallent" who have progessed from F3 but it's testomany to the series that those who do have the money choose British F3 as a steeping stone to spend more money.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Deemun

I am a big fan of British F3 and its heritage and have probably followed it for longer than many on here but I hardly think Max Chilton's performance (over 3 seasons) had very much to do with him going on to become an F1 driver

Perhaps not, but to some degree that could be applied to most eras of the sport. For instance, Pedro Diniz, Philippe Adams and Hideki Noda all raced in British F3 in the early '90s and reached F1. I think most would argue that this was on the basis of budget rather than out and out talent.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by kipper

Perhaps not, but to some degree that could be applied to most eras of the sport. For instance, Pedro Diniz, Philippe Adams and Hideki Noda all raced in British F3 in the early '90s and reached F1. I think most would argue that this was on the basis of budget rather than out and out talent.

So we are always doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past?

Only if the MSA/FIA just sit on their hands and do nothing.

There should be a well defined ladder of success, starting with Formula Ford or Formula 4, before a licence for F3 can be granted. That would also help national teams.

The absurdity of a privileged few, talented or not, jumping from a go-kart to an international F3 series is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who follows motor sport.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

So we are always doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past?

Only if the MSA/FIA just sit on their hands and do nothing.

There should be a well defined ladder of success, starting with Formula Ford or Formula 4, before a licence for F3 can be granted. That would also help national teams.

The absurdity of a privileged few, talented or not, jumping from a go-kart to an international F3 series is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who follows motor sport.

Why? What has it got to do with me and you whether someone has skipped over a series or two? How does it impinge us in any way?

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Why? What has it got to do with me and you whether someone has skipped over a series or two? How does it impinge us in any way?

I thought I explained that already. It obviously doesn't insult you though so please explain the purpose of the junior series below F3, what are they for? Why does it matter if anyone wins them? Are they of any use at all?

Without structure the whole "sport" is meaningless. If you can avoid racing all your peers just by writing a big enough cheque it undermines the entire raison d'être of the junior formulae.

It doesn't happen in the USA, in either NASCAR or open wheel racing. I see no reason why a licensing system to acknowledge experience and success can't be introduced by the MSA/FIA.

[Hawkwood]

The purposes are for drivers to use them to learn how to race cars, just as F3 and GP2 are for drivers to learn on more advanced cars.

But, if a driver doesn't need to use FFord why should they be forced to?
When Jenson Button and Adrian Sutil jumped straight from F3 to F1 did it render F3000 or GP2 meaningless?

The US feeder series have their own problems, such as champions not being able to find drives in the series above (a disease GP2 seems to have caught).

[Alessio]

And now take Max Verstappen as an example - expected to move from karts to Formula 3 immediately. Albeit, the move is almost certainly due to a healthy financial backing yet he's definitely also on pace to compete for race wins. He topped the German F3 testing in Valencia earlier this year. If you have the pace and the money, why wait?

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Alessio

If you have the pace and the money, why wait?

If you have the pace and money, then I don't see the problem in missing out steps on the ladder; however, the problem arises from drivers that have the money, but not necessarily the pace following suit.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by kipper

If you have the pace and money, then I don't see the problem in missing out steps on the ladder; however, the problem arises from drivers that have the money, but not necessarily the pace following suit.

Exactly.

And how do we know they have the pace unless they race in the junior formulae?

It's not good enough just to set lap records in testing, we all know the tricks teams play when there's no scrutineers around. It boosts the driver's ego, his Dad's or backer's ego and gets good column inches in the press.

What I want to see is the best racing the best at EVERY level. Currently we don't have that. It diminishes the sport at a time when we should be building up the grass roots not allowing moneyed individuals to undermine it just because they can.

It's a failure of vision and leadership from the top. It's all very well Gerhard Berger setting up Formula 4 international but all his efforts are in vain if people can just park their go-kart, get Daddy to write a cheque and enter International F3.

I don't understand why some people can't see that? If these kids are so good they'll breeze the lower formulae won't they? If they end up being in F1 at 20 instead of 19 the only people who care are their personal investors who shouldn't be allowed to run the sport by proxy.