Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Why exactly do Corvette, Viper, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW wish to be pushed into a lower GT class than some Lexus, Audi and Mercedes sedans?

While it is fanciful, why exactly do the manufacturers want to be involved in this? Audi so far refuses to allow the R8 to be homologated, so that they can retain control of their brand image... why would they support this?

You should support because DTM and Super GT are two of the most amount of fans series on the planet. I'm sure the audience of the race would have a large increase.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Articus

That was also my fear. It would be an annoyance to a lot of makes currently in GTE to have these sedans leading the way for GT.

SGT/DTM and GTE cannot get along. SGT is more of a fit for GTE than DTM because they're not exactly racing sedans but with the unification of regs to favor DTM its a dangerous idea.

DTM and GT500 are F1 with roof. They are not a simple sedans.
Also you could open your rules to allow cars like the Ferrari 458 or Porsche 918 racing here (in DTM/GT 500)

[Articus]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

DTM and GT500 are F1 with roof. They are not a simple sedans.
Also you could open your rules to allow cars like the Ferrari 458 or Porsche 918 racing here (in DTM/GT 500)

haha. Yes I acknowledge that DTM/SGT are impressive feats of technology but for that all important (and nuisance) called brand image Corvette cannot afford to be racing in GTE the day a C63 AMG, regardless of the technical prowess under the bodywork, is lapping it..
Thats why so may are angry about the BMW in GTE. In real life a BMW M3, C63 AMG, and Audi A5 are just made to do different things, fulfill different needs than a 458, 911, Corvette C6.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

You should support because DTM and Super GT are two of the most amount of fans series on the planet. I'm sure the audience of the race would have a large increase.

Originally Posted by Articus

haha. Yes I acknowledge that DTM/SGT are impressive feats of technology but for that all important (and nuisance) called brand image Corvette cannot afford to be racing in GTE the day a C63 AMG, regardless of the technical prowess under the bodywork, is lapping it..
Thats why so may are angry about the BMW in GTE. In real life a BMW M3, C63 AMG, and Audi A5 are just made to do different things, fulfill different needs than a 458, 911, Corvette C6.

I agree, and was about to write something similar (although in a different wording).
But, the "problem" with the M3 has never been that it was running in the same class as Supercars, the problem was always the amount of waivers given to do it. (but that's a different subject for another thread )

[tux]

Allowing the GT300 cars into the Asian Le mans series would be a great idea but the BOP between them and GTE would be a mess if you want the GTE class to still be the "premier" gt class.

But Yeah, would be nice to see the wining GT500 car get a chance at Le Mans one year.

Would love to have a time machine to go back to 2006. Good variety of LMP2 chassis, good GT1 grid, good GT2 grid, ahhh the good old days

[TF110]

Simple solution, everyone builds a GTE SGT car to the rules. They can ballast them to 1150, 1200kg and let them have at it. If DTM/SGT tie up goes as planned and gains traction, it'll be a glorious sight. Honda plan to try the NSX, that's a sedan? Lexus might use the LFA, no sedan there either. Nissan have their GTR, we already know its as 'sports car' as any Vette or Porsche. The Germans are the sedan users, not the Japanese. Share a common ruleset, carbon chassis are a part of the future in GTE anyway. It'd be proper to have race cars based on the street sports cars. Mercedes has the SLS already in GT3, BMW has the Z4, Audi has the R8. What's preventing them from taking those to GTE? Rules. Thats what needs changing.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

You should support because DTM and Super GT are two of the most amount of fans series on the planet. I'm sure the audience of the race would have a large increase.

NASCAR has more fans, should we plan to include them too?

Look, you don't include other series cars, that don't fit with what you are trying to do, just to pander to a few fans.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

While it is fanciful, why exactly do the manufacturers want to be involved in this? Audi so far refuses to allow the R8 to be homologated, so that they can retain control of their brand image... why would they support this?

Well, there has been some noise about the manufacturers in DTM wanting to race the DTM-cars in the 24hours at the Ring and at least the BMW has been built with the option to use it in endurance racing, so there actually might be some interest there.

And, honestly, can you see the ACO turning the manufacturers down if they demand entry for these cars?

[TF110]

Nascar isn't sports cars. The future of GTE is up in the air anyway, so write it to appeal to a greater audience? Thats my line of thought.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by TF110

Nascar isn't sports cars. The future of GTE is up in the air anyway, so write it to appeal to a greater audience? Thats my line of thought.

Neither are DTM Sedans or Super GT, so it is a fair comparison.

I'm not sure that the future of GTE is up in the air... looks pretty good from where I am standing.

[TF110]

Really? If they're not 'sports cars' what are they? You're being picky, and if GTE's future was set in stone, why is there this discussion? Right, you're optimistic, the near future is ok, but after 2013? 2014? What's happening then?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Neither are DTM Sedans or Super GT, so it is a fair comparison.

I'm not sure that the future of GTE is up in the air... looks pretty good from where I am standing.

Agree.
The spirit of both Nascar, DTM and SGT is Silhouette racers with nothing more than than a little bit of looks shared with the standard cars.

And yes, the GTE seem very healthy currently. I just wish that GT3 cars where allowed.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Really? If they're not 'sports cars' what are they? You're being picky, and if GTE's future was set in stone, why is there this discussion? Right, you're optimistic, the near future is ok, but after 2013? 2014? What's happening then?

Where having this discussion because it has been suggested to allow DTM and SGT cars into Le Mans, to attract fans from other series. Not because GTE is unhealthy.
(Might i add, that i will bet most DTM fans already watch Le Mans. If we get Honda and or Nissan more into Le Mans, i bet we will get the SGT fans too)

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Neither are DTM Sedans or Super GT, so it is a fair comparison.

I'm not sure that the future of GTE is up in the air... looks pretty good from where I am standing.

DTM isn't running sedans this year... there were CLKs and M3s at LM before, so the precedent for these cars is already set.

[TF110]

Exactly, these are super saloons that can and do compete with road going 'sports cars'. This thread is called RUMORS, the RUMOR being GT300's allowed in GTE. Thats to 'attract fans'? If so it must be ACO and GTA's decision to attract fans by allowing these cars. What's wrong with stating your opinion?

[Mt. Lynx]

A GT500 in garage 56 would be nothing more than a 24 hour commercial ad for SuperGT. The ACO will not take that bait.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Exactly, these are super saloons that can and do compete with road going 'sports cars'. This thread is called RUMORS, the RUMOR being GT300's allowed in GTE. Thats to 'attract fans'? If so it must be ACO and GTA's decision to attract fans by allowing these cars. What's wrong with stating your opinion?

The problem is that it's unattractive for Ferrari, Aston Martin, Corvette and Porsche to be beaten by Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Nissan and Honda in Coupe/Sedan cars.
Remember to the normal viewer, the Silhouette cars do look like their road counter parts!

There has been no rumor of allowing GT300 into the GTE class. There has been a rumor about letting GT300 to run in the AsianLMS as a class itself.
Also a rumor about a wish of running the winning GT500 car in the 56th garage. Those are the rumors, all other has been speculation derived from the two original ones.

And nothing wrong with stating our opinion, never has, and still hasn't. But i'm allowed to comment on you opinion too

[GT3.14]

I love both GTE and SGT, but for very different reasons because they are very different formulas. They are doing well on their own a the moment, mixing them MIGHT result in a reward, but that reward is not worth the risk of destroying the GT category at Le Mans.

[Salamus]

Why fix something that is not broken?

[Articus]

Originally Posted by CTD

(but that's a different subject for another thread )

hahaha

[Articus]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

I love both GTE and SGT, but for very different reasons because they are very different formulas. They are doing well on their own a the moment, mixing them MIGHT result in a reward, but that reward is not worth the risk of destroying the GT category at Le Mans.

Exactly what's in my mind. Its too good to be true.

I am more interested in hearing what some of the teams think about these issues. We never get those kinds of interviews that would really boost the ALMS coverage. What does Doug Fehan think of these rules. What does Guiseppe Risi think of this? What does Hartmut think of this?

How come we get stuck watching people twist ankles, and watching O'Connell bore us to death with Corvettes. How hard is it to ask Doug Fehan on television what he thinks about the class? Addition of SGT? I'm sure Doug Fehan is well aware of Super GT and DTM.

If John Dagys sees this. Hopefully he can get the scoop!

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

NASCAR has more fans, should we plan to include them too?

Look, you don't include other series cars, that don't fit with what you are trying to do, just to pander to a few fans.

The NASCAR cars are gross, with no technology.
The GT500 and DTM cars are high technology. These are F1 with roof.
Le Mans is about high technology, these cars fit right.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by TF110

Simple solution, everyone builds a GTE SGT car to the rules. They can ballast them to 1150, 1200kg and let them have at it. If DTM/SGT tie up goes as planned and gains traction, it'll be a glorious sight. Honda plan to try the NSX, that's a sedan? Lexus might use the LFA, no sedan there either. Nissan have their GTR, we already know its as 'sports car' as any Vette or Porsche. The Germans are the sedan users, not the Japanese. Share a common ruleset, carbon chassis are a part of the future in GTE anyway. It'd be proper to have race cars based on the street sports cars. Mercedes has the SLS already in GT3, BMW has the Z4, Audi has the R8. What's preventing them from taking those to GTE? Rules. Thats what needs changing.

I agree with you the Japanese are true GT, only the Germans are sports sedans.
It would be great a GTE SGT, but you would have a large increase in costs. Therefore you should maintain a low cost GT. The option would include GT3 as the lowest category

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I agree with you the Japanese are true GT, only the Germans are sports sedans.
It would be great a GTE SGT, but you would have a large increase in costs. Therefore you should maintain a low cost GT. The option would include GT3 as the lowest category

So basically throw out the current cars and supporters? Brilliant.

Honda racing a car that doesn't exist... sure lot's of technology, but so what? Still silhouette racers that show no resemblance to their road cars... no thanks, not in the least interested in that being the basis for Le Mans racing.

This just isn't realistic.

[Asa]

One is a Sports Sedan and the other is a GT... I really can't see the big difference. Both look like two door sports cars to me. I guess most casual fans also just see them as really cool sports cars that they want to drive, either for real or in the GT5 game.