If... (1st of May, 1994)

[Bononi]

...had been this way...

[Bononi]

A tribute exhibition is happening in a São Paulo's subway station this week.

[Bononi]

[stripedcat]

Schumi would have had to taken Senna out in Adelaide, like he did to Damon. Or possibly upgraded his traction control system - allegedly.

[mountainstar]

The "if" question opens up a lot of doors, as who knows what might have happened later down the road had not those accidents happened. Since it did happen, I think all you can look at is the positive that came out of it or lessons learned. Now when I look back at 1990-1994 and some of the accidents that happened and the car design of the time, it was only a matter of time before something went wrong.

I think both of those fatal accidents forced a lot of changes in regards to safety. It forced a rethink on how exposed the drivers head was in an F1 car, barrier design, helmet design, head and neck restraints, suspension wishbone design and tethers, etc. Nearly 2 decades later, the fastest open wheel formula in the world hasn't had a fatality since, knock on wood. I think that is a pretty good record considering. You have to give the FIA and F1 credit for improving safety, rather than what many people or organizations would do, which is talk big and apply band aid solutions.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The "if" question opens up a lot of doors, as who knows what might have happened later down the road had not those accidents happened.

I think both of those fatal accidents forced a lot of changes in regards to safety.

Yes, I think this is very true. I think if Senna had escaped (to leave aside poor Ratzenberger for just a moment), someone would have died some way down the line. Safety has been increased immeasurably (well, measurably and it's by a large amount) and it seemed to take Senna's death to generate the push to improve. I always feel the mention of Roland Ratzenberger gets sidelined far too much. It makes me wonder if the push for improved safety would have been anywhere near as great had it not been for Senna's death. Motor racing, for all its 'logical' engineering ethos, can be an irrational place, with people believing Senna couldn't possibly die (the "because he was Senna" argument). I wonder if it took a death of someone of his magnitude to push for greater safety.

Perhaps we would have had large improvements nonetheless as technologies improved and were developed, but I suspect it was only a matter of time before something happened. The cockpits are now massively strong in a way that pushes (defines?) the current limits of material strengths, but I also think F1 has been a bit lucky in recent times in avoiding 'freak' accidents (flying wheels) whose risks cannot be negated by safety advances without wholesale changes in the way we go motor racing (such as closed cockpits).

When someone does die it will be a tragedy, as any death is, but it should not be unexpected.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

.... but I also think F1 has been a bit lucky in recent times in avoiding 'freak' accidents (flying wheels) whose risks cannot be negated by safety advances without wholesale changes in the way we go motor racing (such as closed cockpits).

When someone does die it will be a tragedy, as any death is, but it should not be unexpected.

There's no doubt F1 safety has improved massively since 1994. I am also in no doubt that F1 has been lucky since then, and this has led to the same over-confidence that existed just prior to 1994. Sadly, the balloon will be pricked in a similar fashion, sooner or later.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I think both of those fatal accidents forced a lot of changes in regards to safety. It forced a rethink on how exposed the drivers head was in an F1 car, barrier design, helmet design, head and neck restraints, suspension wishbone design and tethers, etc. Nearly 2 decades later, the fastest open wheel formula in the world hasn't had a fatality since, knock on wood. I think that is a pretty good record considering. You have to give the FIA and F1 credit for improving safety, rather than what many people or organizations would do, which is talk big and apply band aid solutions.

Well I feel it's sad really the 2 deaths we've had in the sport since Senna are swept under the carpet, as if driver fatalities are the only ones that matter and the Marshals who were killed at Monza and Melbourne are inconsequential.

Also I would hope F1 won't rush into any kind of foolish canopy suggestion, because that is going to cause more trouble that it is worth.
Any kind of rollover scenario will ensure the driver being trapped until the marshals can get to him and then I'd dread to think what could happen to him in that time.

As for what would've happened if Senna had lived post Imola, well he was convinced of Schumacher's car's illegality so perhaps with the biggest name in the sport pushing for Benetton to be checked and double checked Schumacher wouldn't have had such a car advantage and Senna could reel his points advantage in over the course of the season.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I always find it horrifically ironic that on the Eurosport broadcast, they were talking to a guy from Ilmor (I THINK) about the strength of the current chassis/tubs and how they're the safest they've ever been.

Mid way through a sentence, Ratzenberger left the circuit at Villenueve...

Selby

[beau1]

Sadly as others have said, we would have possibly lost other drivers if it wasn't for Senna's high profile accident and the improved safety which followed. Jos Verstappen at Spa 96' and Martin Brundle at Melbourne 96' come immediatly to mind.

As for the future of Formula One had Senna lived? Well, I think people can confidently say that Schumacher would have won the 1994 Championship. 1995 would have been a bit different with a strong rivalry between Senna-Schumacher and maybe Hill. 1996 would have been interesting because Senna was planning to move to Ferrari that year which would have meant Schumacher probably staying at Benetton or moving to Williams or even McLaren, in turn this would have completely altered the state of F1 in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by beau1

As for the future of Formula One had Senna lived? Well, I think people can confidently say that Schumacher would have won the 1994 Championship. 1995 would have been a bit different with a strong rivalry between Senna-Schumacher and maybe Hill. 1996 would have been interesting because Senna was planning to move to Ferrari that year which would have meant Schumacher probably staying at Benetton or moving to Williams or even McLaren, in turn this would have completely altered the state of F1 in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

Hmmmm, it would have been a close run thing in my opinion. I know Senna would have been behind Schumi in 1994(because of all of the problems with the Williams car and the fact that it never finished any races). Once the problems with it were fixed though, it would have been a tougher challenge for Schumi. It is worth noting that Senna was always on pole compared to Schumi(even in the car spec at the start of the season). I wonder if Schumi would have got the race ban that year as well? It would have been close.

1995 would have been a different story. The Williams was the car to have! In the hands of Senna he would have walked it! It would have been interesting to how competitive Hill was that year compared to Senna. Hill seemed to have a very bad time in 1995. He seemed to be at the mercy of Schumi's mind games!

One race which would have been interesting, would be Spa 1995. Schumi stayed out on dries - what would rainmaster Senna have done? Sadly we'll never know.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

1995 would have been a different story. The Williams was the car to have! In the hands of Senna he would have walked it! It would have been interesting to how competitive Hill was that year compared to Senna. Hill seemed to have a very bad time in 1995. He seemed to be at the mercy of Schumi's mind games!

One race which would have been interesting, would be Spa 1995. Schumi stayed out on dries - what would rainmaster Senna have done? Sadly we'll never know.

The Williams might not have been the car to have. Remember a boat load of rule changes were driven through after his death. Some adapted to those changes better than others.

[ECW Dan Selby]

/\ Yeh I have to say, I see your point, and have thought this a few times.

Are we not just in a similar position to what we were in in 1994? Obviously the cars HAVE been made safer, but we had a close call with Massa, another close call with Schuey/Liuzzi at Abu Dhabi..

It does make you think, doesn't it?

Will people look back at this era and say 'why didn't they make changes when they had the chance...?!'.

Selby

[Marbot]

I don't think that it's possible to guard against every sort of accident. It's difficult to look at an F1 car and say that it's obvious that this or that is not safe or that it could not be made any safer.

One thing that struck me about the new Indy Cars is that their new chassis seem to have all but eliminated the possibility of accidents where one tyre 'climbs' above a tyre on another car. The idea of side pods as wide as the track of the car, and 'bumpers' on the rear of the car, may not appeal to some, but it may be that there comes a time when there is no choice. It would be the result of not only having to make the cars safer, but also a result of having many millions watching a sport where the unthinkable could happen at any moment.

Do you wait for an accident like the one that Schumacher and Liuzzi had to seriously injure or kill someone? Or do you do something about it now?

[calloforion]

Sadly I think had Senna walked away from Imola 94, Luicano Burti would not have been so lucky at Spa 2001 (180mph head on at Blanchemont (sp?)). The cynic in me says that the sweeping safety changes wouldn't have been bought in if only poor Ratzenberger had died.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Yeh, I think alot seem to think the same. I don't think we would have seen the extreme changes on circuits if it were just Ratzenberger's accident that weekend.

It does make you wonder what little changes would have taken place. I don't think we would have had severe changes to places such as Imola.

I do miss those sweeps at Tamburello and Villeneuve.

Selby
--
Besides Imola, what other tracks were modified after the accidents?

[garcon]

I think we're underplaying the importance Ratzenberger's death would have had if Senna hadn't died.

For a start, Senna himself would have been pushing very hard on the drivers' behalf to ensure that any appropriate safety improvements were made.

[ECW Dan Selby]

That is true.

Would it have happened to quickly and to such an extreme, though?

Like I asked, how many tracks were changed as a result of Imola 1994?

Selby

[calloforion]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

That is true.

Would it have happened to quickly and to such an extreme, though?

Like I asked, how many tracks were changed as a result of Imola 1994?

Selby

Of the circuits in use in 1994 quite a few additional to Imola had changes to made to them. (I have possibly forgot a couple)

Catalunya in 94 had a temporary tire chicane added at the before the old high speed Nissan chicane before Campsa was tightened and a straight added to avoid Nissan the following year.

Silverstone in 1994 Copse and Stowe were both tightened and the Abbey chicane was added.

Hockenheim had the Clark and the Senna chicanes tightened.

Monza had the Lesmo curves tightened.

Jerez had the Ayrton Senna chicane added.

Montreal in 1994 and 1995 had a temporary tire chicane added before the old Casino kink before Casino was flattened and basically eradicated in 1996.

Estoril the fast Tanque corner was bypassed by adding the Gancho uphill corkscrew section.

[Marbot]

There were other accidents that happened at Imola which may also have got some people thinking.

There was the Barrichello accident during one of the Friday qualifying (remember that?), in which he was knocked unconscious and did not start the race, and also a wheel that flew off Alboreto's car has he was exiting the pit lane.

Ratzenberger's crash was thought to be caused by front wing failure, and yet the cars still have somewhat fragile front wings, even today.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by Bononi

...had been this way...

Beautiful

I think that Senna might have fullfilled his contract with Williams, but seeing more and more "Ecclestonisation" of the sport, he might leave F1 for CART/IndyCar in 1996. Senna stays in CART until 1999/2000, before he does one last attempt at Formula One, or he just retires in Brazil and becomes a politician.

At least his legacy lives on in case of increased safety measures in this sport. But unfortunately, the fight still has to go on, as seen with recent deaths over the last months.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by DS"

Beautiful

I think that Senna might have fullfilled his contract with Williams, but seeing more and more "Ecclestonisation" of the sport, he might leave F1 for CART/IndyCar in 1996. Senna stays in CART until 1999/2000, before he does one last attempt at Formula One, or he just retires in Brazil and becomes a politician.

At least his legacy lives on in case of increased safety measures in this sport. But unfortunately, the fight still has to go on, as seen with recent deaths over the last months.

I like the theory.

My take is that had he lived, Ayrton would've struggled to make up the gap in '94 but it would've been a cracking spectacle. I also doubt Schuey would've been forced to sit out those races for the alleged plank rubbish... Senna would have pushed him much harder than Damon managed.

Senna would simply have obliterated the field in 1995-97 and then either have done a 2 year swansong with Ferrari or retired.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by DS"

... or he just retires in Brazil and becomes a politician.

A politician, no. Today I know that he was true in his devotion to the country. Becoming a politician in Brazil wouldn't allow him to fulfill his ambitions.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Bononi

A politician, no. Today I know that he was true in his devotion to the country. Becoming a politician in Brazil wouldn't allow him to fulfill his ambitions.

Well, who really knows? People seem to change every 6-7 years and go through phases, so it's really hard to say how he would have lived his life. Life and people are unpredictable and he could have done anything from hang around for 10 more years in F1, or have retired the next year. I think in F1 to remain at such a high competitive level, it takes a lot out of you and who knows how he would have felt about life at 40, 50 and so on.

[Mekola]

Originally Posted by DS"

I think that Senna might have fullfilled his contract with Williams, but seeing more and more "Ecclestonisation" of the sport, he might leave F1 for CART/IndyCar in 1996. Senna stays in CART until 1999/2000, before he does one last attempt at Formula One, or he just retires in Brazil and becomes a politician.

And I believe he might have stayed at Williams for a while and returned to McLaren in 1996. Probably the first Mercedes-engine win after Fangio's days could have been his...