Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[CTD]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

....I thought I made the sarcasm obvious enough, clearly you couldn't follow even something that simple.

I've got something to say about your line on confusion but I'm going to avoid posting that...

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Why are you attacking me as a poster?. i attacked the idea of sarcasm not you.attack the post not the poster

Please let it rest or do it over PM's.
There is no need to share your disagreement with the rest of us.

[MitchZ06]

Doesn't really make much sense to me why some people are just so serious so often, sarcasm lightens the mood not add to any confusion. Personal comprehension causes confusion (posts don't talk to posts, people do).*

Other than that, any chance we could see a MP4-12C GTE program next year or a Nissan GTR GTE? Seems like the next logical step after debuting them both in GT3 this year and would definately add to the grid at Le Mans. Corvette vs Ferrari vs Porsche vs BMW vs Jag vs McLaren vs Nissan would be pure excasty.

*That's all I've got to say on this, I'm not going to be trolled into another post that'll get me banned.

[Racenut]

You wont see a McLaren because it hasnt been homologated maybe the year after, but you could see a Nissan because it has GT1 homologation....

[TF110]

I gotta question. Why no Audi R8 LMS updated to GTE specs? Porsche's are customer programs, and Audi do this with VLN races, why not LeMans style series? I always wondered this.

[MitchZ06]

Well duh the McLaren is not homologated for GTE but afaik it is for GT3 already. Just a matter of time (David Price, are you listening?).
Don't get what you mean by the GT1 homologation though for the GTR, ACO ditched the GT1 class at Le Mans so we won't see the SumoPowerGT cars in the GT1WC showing up there.

As far as the R8 LMS not being GTE, I thought United atleast tried to get it into the GT2 class but it was refused because of things like it's giant rear wing and a few things I can't remember sorry. I think it's essentially too much of a GT3 car to become a GT2 car easily.

[TF110]

I don't think it's that big of a deal. The wing size can be cut back. The 458's in GT3 are basically the same as GTE. Sure there are differences in specs, but I'm positive it wouldn't be so hard to update the R8LMS(LMS in the NAME!) to GTE spec. Just wondered why not go for GT glory as well as top honors?

[MitchZ06]

Yeah it is puzzling, "Audi wins at Le Mans, Takes LMP1 and GTE-Pro Honors" would be a headline worth aiming for for Audi especially in the next year or two seeing as Porsche has a chance to pretty much do just that (win LMP1, GTE-Pro and -Am).

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't think it's that big of a deal. The wing size can be cut back. The 458's in GT3 are basically the same as GTE. Sure there are differences in specs, but I'm positive it wouldn't be so hard to update the R8LMS(LMS in the NAME!) to GTE spec. Just wondered why not go for GT glory as well as top honors?

There is an interview with the head of the R8 developement team somewhere out there on the internet, where he explains why the R8 can't be a GTE. I don't have the time to look it up right now, but the big problem is the suspension which would have to be completely redesigned for GTE...

[arakis]

Audi R8 is too BoP reliant to be a good GTE car, it would make the whole BMW situation so much worse that we would end up with a GT3 class insted of GTE, I know there are a lot of people here and out there who think GTE is just a filler class for LMPs, so they want as many manufs by any means, but creating a BoP GT3 class out of the GTE class would spell the doom of the class, in the form of Works teams and Factory involvement.

In GTE we not only have a huge diversety of manufacturers, but also very heavy factory involvement in the series, and the manufactureres actualy feel like they are making a difference, and take it to heart when they are not, or if they are treated unfairly. therea re huge amounts of Development done over a season, in fack over the last few years development has been insane, GTE cars were getting 1-2s a lap over a 90s average lap faster each year witch is in line with F1 or LMP1 class development.
A BoP only class would erase that and we would be left with a class that would be run by behind the sceen politics, and entierly and only be seen as a filer class, many of the hard core fans that now folow gte pro would lose interest quicly, and we would be left without the cool Porche vs Ferrari thread.

[Audi Racer]

I dont think the problem with GT3 style is the BoP. I think its the amount of driver talent/team talent.

put audi , porsche, mercedes, and BMW, and ferrari (3 cars each) in gt3 with full factory entries with all pro lineups and I bet you you'd sit and watch the entire race.

but since gt3 caters towards lesser talented drivers with abs and traction control it gets a little less interesting.

when push comes to shove your more interested in great racing not who has this and who has that.

im not sure that people know what they want. remember how F1 was when people were not creative in their interpretation of the rules.

[TF110]

Next generation of R8 road car is under development and possibly due next year. I feel the R8LMS project will continue but perhaps a greater initiative towards the GTE class?

[Félix]

Porsche just launched an updated GT3 SuperCup car for the next 2 years. It's still a 997. They don't seem to be in a big hurry. I guess we'll see updated 997 RSRs next year as well in endurance racing. They are probably busy with some other primary project in the meantime.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

I dont think the problem with GT3 style is the BoP. I think its the amount of driver talent/team talent.

put audi , porsche, mercedes, and BMW, and ferrari (3 cars each) in gt3 with full factory entries with all pro lineups and I bet you you'd sit and watch the entire race.

but since gt3 caters towards lesser talented drivers with abs and traction control it gets a little less interesting.

when push comes to shove your more interested in great racing not who has this and who has that.

im not sure that people know what they want. remember how F1 was when people were not creative in their interpretation of the rules.

and youd lose that bet, I couldnt care less about BoP ruled classes, or stock car racing for that matter, its the same thing to me, the whole point od sports car racing is about manufacteror involvement and them making all the difference, BoP kills that and lets the least developed car dictate the tempo, and differing amounts of BoP decide the winners and not Manufacterurs and how much development they have done, I seriosly dont understand people that enjoy BoP racing and calling it great manufacteror competition, I mean its nice to watch as a passtime, but serius racing can only be held when manus dont have their hands tied down by BoP, thats why F1, LMP1, GTE PRo are so popular, because you can feel that the manuf are making the difference. and if GTE Pro goes GT3 route, they would lose the manuf support and GTE PRO would be dead.

BTW, I find i anoying that people who know little or less about the classes history and importance keep giving sugestions that make apsolutly no sence for a class in question.
How come no one is saying lets have the LMP1 class go the GT3 way

[MitchZ06]

Originally Posted by arakis

BTW, I find i anoying that people who know little or less about the classes history and importance keep giving sugestions that make apsolutly no sence for a class in question.
How come no one is saying lets have the LMP1 class go the GT3 way

Can't agree with you more. It seems like GT racing either has the true and pure fans (those who haven't been caught up in the BoP circus) and those fans who watch GT3 and think BoP is the greatest thing to happen to sportscar racing since sliced bread and catering companies.

BoP quite frankly is utter BS when it comes to equivalency, fast cars are strangled down unfairly and slow cars are given huge helping hands. Remember Corvette in GT1 and GT3? Heaviest car on the grid with the smallest restrictors.....

As has been said on RLM many many times, what needs to be done to GT2/GTE? NOTHING!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't think it's that big of a deal. The wing size can be cut back. The 458's in GT3 are basically the same as GTE. Sure there are differences in specs, but I'm positive it wouldn't be so hard to update the R8LMS(LMS in the NAME!) to GTE spec. Just wondered why not go for GT glory as well as top honors?

Besides Audi/Porsche politics, the R8 LMS uses a virtually standard engine, ABS and other parts that aren't suitable/legal in GTE.

The Mclaren GT3 was designed from the outset to make the transition to GTE easier.

[Mt. Lynx]

The way I see it the biggest issue with BoP is that it´s abused rather than used. I see BoP as rules in the making instead of the traditional way of setting up the rules before a season.
There are always complaints whenever a new rule is imposed, be in P1, F1 or GT3, but the difference is that BoP will continue to change throughout a season. IMHO it could be useful in all motorsports, but not the way it´s (mis)used today.

About the GTE vs GT3, I think it´s just a matter time before we see GT3 spec cars at Le Mans. Didn´t Matech say the their supposed GTE Ford was just a GT3 car with some extras on? Like the GT1 car? And hasn´t Nissan also somewhere said they are eyeballing GTE? If so they will also most likely just further develop the GT3 car.

[Deleted]

Modified GT3 cars have been racing in GT2 before... the difference is that they haven't just simply been brought on the same level as others via BoP, yes they've received some helpful weight and restrictor adjustments but not after every single race and in ludicrous amounts. Just look at all the horribly failed Gallardo projects in the last couple of years, the car does make a difference here. The current 0,5% gap isn't much by all means but it does allow manufacturers, tires and cars to make a difference. Far from the artificial wonderland of GT3

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Mt. Lynx

The way I see it the biggest issue with BoP is that it´s abused rather than used. I see BoP as rules in the making instead of the traditional way of setting up the rules before a season.
There are always complaints whenever a new rule is imposed, be in P1, F1 or GT3, but the difference is that BoP will continue to change throughout a season. IMHO it could be useful in all motorsports, but not the way it´s (mis)used today.

About the GTE vs GT3, I think it´s just a matter time before we see GT3 spec cars at Le Mans. Didn´t Matech say the their supposed GTE Ford was just a GT3 car with some extras on? Like the GT1 car? And hasn´t Nissan also somewhere said they are eyeballing GTE? If so they will also most likely just further develop the GT3 car.

no, in december the matech team was on sale with the 2 ford GT1, there was the option for the customers to update the 2 GT1 cars to the GTE specs.

[Deleted]

I'm sure he refers to the LMGT project they were planning before the team went bankrupty... here's a google-translated version of the original french article discussing the new proposed specs:

Originally Posted by Martin Bartek (R.I.P)

-- "It will actually use the base of the GT1 existence. The GT1 has more performance and reliability, it is primarily a competitive car. We are also inspired by the spirit of the GT3. The LMGT is an alliance of the competitiveness of the GT1, with the rapidity of the GT3. On the aesthetic level, the 2011 Ford LMGT should be pretty close to that seen at Le Mans this year. The changes will not be visual, but many things are changing. The brakes are steel wing on a single (not bi-plane), while the need to review the flat bottom and the splitter. Overall the agreement reached with the ACO requires us to changes that are not excessive. The main constraint is the width of the car, but the new Ferrari will be even larger than us. The two cars will be non-standard "

[Gingers4Justice]

BoP is a great way of making GT3 fair and affordable to garagist teams and gentelman/sportsman drivers who want a taste of high horsepower action. I don't see what's wrong with that. It's not designed for manufactures and not particularly designed for the fans.

GTE/GT2 is when the manufactures and pro drivers stick their necks in, and you'd never want too much BoP there. There have been a few dodgy dealings with making cars legal, like the M3, but we can all agree the racing has been absolutely mind blowing and we'll probably look back at the late noughties as a golden era.

If you don't like the BoP in GT3, fine, let other people watch it! It's not designed for you. But I agree with those who say that GT2 should not be meddled with - for the time being, at least. If all the present manufacturers in GTE left for LMP1 tomorrow then perhaps BoP might be an option to take seriously. Not every category can be for the purists if you want 56 cars on the grid at La Sarthe.

[arakis]

^what he said

as long there is at least 2 manufs around in GTE I dont see that the action in the class will diminish, and curently both ferrari and porsche seem to bo comitted for the long haul.

[Mal]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/

With BMW rumoured to be putting a diesel engine in the next M5 what are the chances of a BMW diesel racer?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Mal

http://www.autocar.co.uk/

With BMW rumoured to be putting a diesel engine in the next M5 what are the chances of a BMW diesel racer?

Likely.
But i don't think in near future.
With the cut of F1 and WTCC to give space for the DTM program. A LMP project would be strange.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mal

http://www.autocar.co.uk/

With BMW rumoured to be putting a diesel engine in the next M5 what are the chances of a BMW diesel racer?

I'm tempted to make a comment, but with my track history with BMW, I'd better not......

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm tempted to make a comment, but with my track history with BMW, I'd better not......

C'mon Ayse you can do it