Track Days

[Anuauto]

Originally Posted by RobC

One of our most popular venues is Castle Combe, which as you probably know the circuit is always in constant use with trackdays etc. We also have events at Colerne, Dunkeswell, North Weald, St Eval, Llandow, Merryfields etc etc. As for under-subscribed, I don't know of any of the events run by the ASWMC that are under subscribed. For a fact I know that our recent Castle Combe event had 30 people of the reserve list (160 car meeting). It sounds like from what you are saying you are struggling to fill places, is this down to venues or lack of organisation/promotion on the clubs part?

No "we" ie. one club runs events at all those venues! You have just shot down your own point with examples like Castle Combe and Colerne. The sport needs additional venues because these are oversubscribed (and too many of those have been screwed for real motorsport by track day commercial operators tying them up - or, in the case of Dunsfold, Top Gear annoying the locals before a club could show them a sprint would not cause disturbance). Entries available at North Weald this weekend (one of the few places that is so cr*p its rarely full now - and under threat from John Prescott for housing as we write - but its one of only 2 venues in the area). I think much of the speed world would be deeply shocked to hear your pretence that track days are OK as there are enough venues around for speed events (and we haven't even mentioned that for many years there has been no hill climb venue at all in the South East quarter of England).

[RobC]

Originally Posted by Anuauto

No "we" ie. one club runs events at all those venues! You have just shot down your own point with examples like Castle Combe and Colerne. The sport needs additional venues because these are oversubscribed (and too many of those have been screwed for real motorsport by track day commercial operators tying them up - or, in the case of Dunsfold

I think you really need to get your facts right before spouting off. Castle Combe has spare capacity to run more speed events. I know this how? because one of the clubs I belong to is organising a second event there for the 2006 season. Colerne is a special case, that'll never be a trackday venue.

I think much of the speed world would be deeply shocked to hear your pretence that track days are OK as there are enough venues around for speed events

Really? or that just your opinion? mine...well so long as we can all get track time no matter how organised then I am a happy chap

(and we haven't even mentioned that for many years there has been no hill climb venue at all in the South East quarter of England).

Because there are lots of trackdays run on hill climbs? Who's fault is it that there aren't any in the SE now? pretty sure you can't blame the trackday companies for that one.

[greenamex2]

Out of interest, and hopefully a little less contentious than the speed venue discussion currently raging, a friend of mine runs a track day club that predominately deals with the upper end of the market (911 GT3 RS', Carerra GT's etc).

He has only one member that also races and has never 'lost' a member to racing.

Clearly in his clubs case the people can probably afford to do racing and/or track days but chose track days says they just aren't interested.

Perhaps the fact that I only get invited as a figure of fun because I work on my car is also an indicator. Funny though, they aren't slow in asking for car setup etc advice! I really must tell them sometime to inflate half their tyres by 10 psi and reduce the others by the same amount and see if they swallow it.

[Anuauto]

I think it must be a unique situation - and very serious for the sport - for someone like RobC, who is clearly not an ignorant track day boy racer and does actually know something of the sport, to be undermining the many attempts of clubs to open or re-open badly needed new venues for the only form of MSA grass roots "fast" motorsport. Instead of trying to pretend black is white, why not put a bit of personal effort into getting sprints back into places like Kemble, Hullavington, Wroughton, South Cerney etc (just to mention his region and 3 of which have been or are being afffected by track days). I too have knowledge of Castle Combe and the failure in the past to get other sprint dates opened. The blunt fact is that although that region has more venues than others, events are still oversubscribed. Elsewhere, sprints on unsuitable but available venues are having to cope with high speed event demand because there are no hillclimbs (and the nearest hillclimb venue to the populous southeast is the only one in the UK not running roadgoing classes!).
This thread must stop - now. The sport cannot afford to have anyone, least of all someone with some knowledge, publicly undermining the efforts of so many hard working clubs and club members to expand the venue list and repair some of the damage done by track days to real motorsport. The End.

[RobC]

All I am saying is that problems that you mention can't all be attributed to trackdays (I do get the vibe that your feelings about trackdays is the complete opposite to mine). A lot of the venues you mention have been lost because of noise nuisance and general complaints from local residents from disturbance. I know Wroughton has the occasional trackday on it, but given the surface there thats no loss. Hullavington also host trackdays, I don't know the history on why sprinting has stopped there, some homework for me. I did enquired to why we can't run sprints at Kemble, reason being the surface is completely broken up, last I was told was the Army were going to resurface but I guess with all the other reductions in Forces budgets this has gone out of the window. I don't appreciate the remark that I am undermining peoples/clubs efforts, I try and take an active interest in all activities and offer assistance where I can. Ok, I might have some very different views on some subjects but should I be shot down for them. At the end of the day I enjoy my hobby and I don't want to see it disappear, which I am sure is your feeling as well.

Maybe we need to make the general motorsport community more aware of the problems that are facing the clubs in the UK? I am first to admit I am primary focused around the SW and I am not up to speed on what is going on in the rest of the county. Maybe with more promotion/education will help the motorsport cause. The only thing that we can be sure of is that trackdays are here to stay, could we lever off their community?

[AlexF]

End this thread?

Why?

Beacuse you don't like it?

Have you not heard of freedom of speach?

Alex

[archibold]

To second AlexF, discussion boards are here to discuss things, although this is a public board I would be very surprised if anyone who is not interested in motorsport is reading it...what's the problem with recognising issues and discussing them ?

If trackdays are keeping sprint events out of venue's ask yourself why? Is it because trackdays are more economically viable?? We live in a market economy, you need to accept that sprints/racing does not have some special right to use a facility, it's a market out there.

As a racer we regularly use trackdays to run race cars in, get tuition done for some of our drivers, or simply to get decent amount's of time on track. When you are setting a car up or trying to resolve a problem, they are perfect as you don't have to wait an hour and a half for the next session to try something out.

There should be no problem waiting for slower drivers to negotiate corners they have paid the same amount for the track time they deserve to use it. I have to disagree totally with the earlier comments in the thread that you should overtake outside the track day rules because you are a quicker driver/have a quicker car and cannot wait, what gives you the right to intimidate someone else and spoil their fun?

When I first started racing I had only done 1 trackday and wish I had done more to get familiar with driving on a circuit, for a racer the two can complement each other.

Final point (bit of an epic this), if you think ARDS is expensive don't bother going racing it's going to lead to dissappointment when you cannot continue/be competitive.

Archibold

[Al Weyman]

Archibold, I made a comment about slower drivers so i assume I was one of the earlier contributers you mentioned. I wil say in my case at the Silverstone debacle I attended the bog standard 1300 Metro was in my opinion a 'plant' by the organisers to slow everyone down. As I recollect this thing was a rust bucket and totally unsuitable for a trackday. Now if it was genuine then maybe the organisers should insist on some standard of cars entered and ensure they are at least able to negotiate the track at a reasonable pace as failure to do so leads to the frustrations I described in my contribution.

[DaveStyles]

I haven't read the whole thread,.. but this might make you smile..
I used to do a couple track days here and there before I started racing..

I was having a particularly good race with someone at Oulton this year, managed to pass them at the shell hairpin and was all happy with myself until the chicane when they shot up the inside and outbraked me.. I was GENUINELY surprised for some reason..

"WTF?" I exclaimed.. then.. "oh yeah.. this is racing.. I should have been expecting that I suppose.. !!"

"must defend my position..must defend my position.. must defend my position"

A BIG difference between trackdays and race craft.

I didn't get back past them the whole race,as they then just drove defensive into the hairpin every lap !

[Al Weyman]

Can I change my mind?

I have just been to an excellent Trackday run By Easytrack at Snetterton yesteryday (Friday) and I must say from my previous negetive experiences, this was a revelation. Well run, disciplined and very accomadating. I booked at the last minute as my old Chevy has not turned a wheel for 12 years and since a major revamp and I have entered a race next Saturday at Snet. I picked the event very last minute on the internet as i did not want to wait till Mallory on Wednesday as if things went wrong I would have no time to cancel. I spoke with the organisers if it was OK to take a race car out and just bed everything in they said no problem.

After an unbeliveable 24hrs of set backs including the car not fitting on the trailer and badly smashing my hand when the trailer winch let go I eventually arrived at after 2pm and hoped they would still let me run. No problem they said and despite the setbacks I actually managed to post about 30 laps or so. There was some wonderful machinery out there including an ultra quick Ultima and everyone drove very responsibly. There were I would say, a majority of racecars including Britsports (I think) and Kumo BMW's. I must say I throughly enjoyed the afternoon, well done EasyTrack.

[greenamex2]

My trackdays are usually run part of Easytrack as well. Definitely one of the better ones. Marcus, the main man, will generally NOT stand for any poor driving (including threatening to evict me once when I spun on the warm up lap due to lots of new bits on my car not being set right, wet weather, greasy track etc etc etc).

HOWEVER, I have also been to their days where the driving, usually race drivers using the day as a test day, has been appalling and they either haven't been picked up at all or they have hit an innocent party out and THEN been evicted.

At least you can guarantee that they will NEVER let that driver back out again.

[kickstart]

As someone who has raced for nearly 20 years I do the odd track day and generally enjoy myself. I tend to use a road car for track days which is very different to my race car and hence I don't feel the need to drive it as hard.
Racing and track days are very different and if I do more than a couple of track days a year I get rather bored with them. Test days are there for racers to drive quickly without any of the overtaking restrictions.
Personally I do not follow the problem about not overtaking on corners, most people let you through very quickly (as I always do to a faster car) and if they dont then just back off and give yourself some room - just like qualifying...
Lastly, having raced with the 750MC for the last couple of years I would say that the costs of competing in say locost or stock hatch would be less than maybe 50% of people spend on track days.

[carsreunited]

I did my first trackday at Goodwood two years ago. I did around 50 laps in a roadcar and had a complete blast. After that day I looked into racing.

Since then, I've been on a few trackdays and it comes down to how well the groups are organised. If you get unequal machinery or driving standards it can be very annoying. I did one in a standard new Mini Cooper and you find that the guys in the quick kit won't yield because they are embarrassed that a girls car is quicker than them. They blast off down the straight bits and then wobble their way around the corner holding you up.

I've found that the best track-days are those organised by your own club as you tend to know the other drivers, it's generally an open pit-lane and they are cheaper as the club doesn't make a penny on them.

I would think without the income from organised track-days, us racers would be paying even higher race entry fees.

Scott

[Al Weyman]

I know what you mean and in many ways my cars are probably very frustrating to some guys on the track and it is down to the driver to be reasonable. At my trackday at Snet last Friday there were some Kuhmo BMW boys having a run around and as I was only getting in to it after a long layoff and rebuild I could with the power of the Chevy easy hold these guys off down the straight then hold them up through the twisty bits as the rules would not allow them to overtake. I did this for one lap but decided it was unfair so backed off down the straight and waved them through. You will have to find your own way past in a race though :-).

[AlexF]

wow!

what a trackday toy!

Got any pics?

Alex

[Al Weyman]

If that was aimed at me Alex, here is a link to some pictures I stuck up earlier. http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73559

I will be out with the York Fitness boys tomorrow at Snettington God willing!

[carsreunited]

Al, the car looks fantastic. Shame I won't be there to see you lap me. Still waiting for my engine to be fixed. Have a good one.

[Chris Griffin]

Off Topic... Saw from the MST results that you were at Snett Al. Qualified but no race? How did you get on?

[Al Weyman]

Thanks for asking Chris.

I was a victim of my own foolish preparation mistake I am afraid. I did not even manage a clear lap in practice as I was bogged down around the twisty bits behind slower cars (Camaros really can be slowed down around the bends despite what people may tell you about yanks), I was just buikding myself up for a clear lap when I thought I had picked up a puncture and pulled off on lap 6. On inspection the front wheel was loose, these were brand new wheels I had just fitted not the ones I tested with infortunately as with these fitted the car fitted trailer better. I then deduced that the paint and lacquer on the new wheels was the problem and cleaned ot up and retorqued the wheels. Unfortunarely I was wrong. Anyhow it was absolutely bucketing down all day and every tme I went to work on the car I got soaked and the meeting was delayed and looked like it was going to be cancelled. If it had'nt been peeing down and I had some help I would have probably found the real problem which was basically the centre spigot on the front hub did not fit the wheel centre and was just holding the wheel off.

When the race was finally called in appalling conditions with a lot of standing water and after a meeting of the club reps they called our race to the grid, I jumped in the car only for a few of the guys to (fortunately) start shouting to tell me the wheel was wobbling! And that was it I did not have enough time to take the wheels off and fit some spacers (which I has with me) so that was it.

One positive thing though I know there is more pace in the car if I could have put a good lap in and was pleasantly surprised to find myself midway on the grid. Also the rest if the car including my new brake conversion with some Wilwood Grand National 6 pots worked great the brakes really inspiring confidence and not locking up the wheels as the Jag calipers I took off could.

[SpawnyWhippet]

I personally feel that track days do not prepare anyone for racing. You can learn which way the corners on that track go, but thats it. I have done 2 track days, and the quality of driving was woeful. In the first one, I drove a standard road car, boy racers in turbo-nutter Skylines would hoon past me on the straights, then brake down to a walking speed for the corners, taking all the wrong lines and powering on inappropriately, causing the back end to come unstuck all the time. I then couldn't pass due to the 'no overtaking in corners' rule, meaning that I couldn't ever get any decent driving in. I went home after 1 hour. In the second, I was in an F3 car at Donington. It was mixed in with saloon cars and all sorts. Again, the driving was pretty poor. To summarise, track days are great for people to let off steam, but it has no relevance to racing.

[Al Weyman]

I think if you want to bed an engine in or do some untimed testing and setting up they are OK but you have to take them for what they are or go to Mallory Park Wednesday morning. I do think they definitely give you a feel for the track as well if you have never raced there and if like the one I recnetly did at Snet the price is very reasonable for a full day I think they have their uses. I will do another I think.

[AlexF]

Al your car is stunning!!!!


Alex

[Al Weyman]

Glad you liked it Alex, wait till you see the 3rd gen model which I will give a run out next season.