Small Displacement sportscars (Yay or Nay?)

[ptclaus98]

Marshall Pruett made an interesting point on Twitter the other day. He posted a pic of some IMSA GTU cars and while he acknowledged the fact that exotic GT cars are exciting, he thought that there should be a place for small bore sportscars(000cc,IMO). And while I am very biased, I do unsurprisingly agree. The IMSA GTU era, even though it was basically a silhouette series(which isn't what I'm calling for) spawned an arms race in Japanese sports cars that continued on in the JGTC. Then you can take the Japanese and add Lotus, BMW, Chevy, Hyundai, Alfa, and give all of them somewhere to race their small bore sports cars, and it could be good.


So what say you, Ten-Tenths? Should the ACO make a class for small bore sportscars? Should the USCR?

[DS"]

As long as it runs fast enough, I don't care.

Although I'm so sure if the ACO should establish another GT class. Maybe if they remerge GTE-Pro and GTE-Am. Then I can see room for a GTE-Light class. After all, such a class would be suited to cars like the Lotus Evora, Toyota GT-86, Audi TT, Peugeot RCZ and so on.

[Maelochs]

The question would be, where would they race? USCR has four classes already, which should be the absolute max. ACO-FIA doesn't really have room for more cars at most races either (Well, ELMS does .... )

As a stand-alone, they would interfere with Touring Car series.

I like small-bore sports cars and prototypes too ... but they don't rate their own series and they don't fit in the existing series ...

[Gingers4Justice]

The WEC could do with another consistent support series in the European rounds and maybe in Bahrain too.

ELMS, WEC and the small sports cars, sounds like a decent draw to me.

There are lots of cars out there, like the new Alfa 4C out there, which will become increasingly popular on the road but will have nowhere to race.

It's a yes for me - but they don't have a place in any multi-class series right now.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by DS"

As long as it runs fast enough, I don't care.

^This + looking good.

Always been a fan of ground pounders, but there's something appealing about smaller displacement, lighter cars having to keep higher corner speeds and trying to draft down the longer straights.

So "yes", but only if I still get big and loud.

[Speed-King]

Well, Grand Am pretty much tried that with GX and that has now become a casualty of the merger. With GTD drifting towards GT3-regs now, I don't think there'll be an opening for another class below GTLM there for the time being, and the same thing goes for ELMS.


That said, I'd definitely be interested in seeing such a class, but I doubt there's a place for it as long as GT3 continues to thrive. Another point is that it'd almost have to be manufacturer driven - given the choice, most gentleman drivers will gravitate towards the bigger and more glamorous GTE/3-cars, even more so if the "GTUs" are technologically on a similar level as the bigger cars and hence similarly expensive to run.

And a final point: as long as you can run cars that would be a natural fit for GTU (*cough* BMW Z4 *cough*) in the big GT-classes, there will be even less of an incentive for manufacturers to consider participation in such a class.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

and add Chevy, and give all of them somewhere to race their small bore sports cars,

And what, pray tell, is the "small bore" Chevy sports car???


ps - Thinkin' back on it, I did drive a friends well done Corvair back 'afore answering machines and beepers.....

[TRspitfirefan]

The Continental sports car series provides a place for small sports cars like the Mazda MX5.
I wish there were more modern vehicles to carry on the tradition of cars like the MGB, the Triumph TR's, etc.

[TRspitfirefan]

Originally Posted by jimclark

And what, pray tell, is the "small bore" Chevy sports car???


ps - Thinkin' back on it, I did drive a friends well done Corvair back 'afore answering machines and beepers.....

GM had the short lived Solstice from Pontiac, and the Saturn Sky.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

GM had the short lived Solstice from Pontiac, and the Saturn Sky.

Unnerstood, trust me. We could include the backwards Chevette too then, the Pontiac Fiero. But the statement was Chevy....not GM.

[canamman]

I could get behind a handful of these guys,
Is the Hyundai PM580 engine small bore enough?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

The Continental sports car series provides a place for small sports cars like the Mazda MX5.
I wish there were more modern vehicles to carry on the tradition of cars like the MGB, the Triumph TR's, etc.

The "problem" (which isn't really one) with Conti Challenge is that it's a show room stock series, so the cars are individually less than spectacular. Doesn't mean that they can't provide great racing, but I'd really like to see someone putting serious GT3 style aero on an MX5 or something similar.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The "problem" (which isn't really one) with Conti Challenge is that it's a show room stock series, so the cars are individually less than spectacular. Doesn't mean that they can't provide great racing, but I'd really like to see someone putting serious GT3 style aero on an MX5 or something similar.

Depends what you want I guess, I'm undecided on this. I really enjoy GT4 racing, it's fun to see modern cars being raced a bit more like how they used to be...

I wish there was a series that had spectacular cars without the aero - most of which in racing form has zero road relevance. You don't need aero to make a car interesting. I adore the 1960s era of GT cars, they are probably the most amazing cars at the Goodwood revival - the 250 GTOs, Stingrays, E-Types etc. Even though they have absolutely no aero and in all seriousness are going pretty slow, there is a breath-taking magic to them which no form of GT racing currently has on the planet.

[Speed-King]

Don't get me started on GT4... I am just about the biggest fan of that category in Europe, but the wheels have really come off of that in the last few years (if they have ever been on in the first place)... the Durch GT series seems to be in the process of imploding right now, so that leaves us with VLN, Brit GT and Swedish GT with about 20 cars between them.

And then - most GT4s obviously don't really fit the description of small bore sportscars anyway...

[TheDude]

if they all look like this, Bring them on!


Seriously, small displacement "GT" Style cars could be used to boost up regional championships

I bet VLN a lots of them

[GXclasschamp]

So, GT300 then?

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by jimclark

And what, pray tell, is the "small bore" Chevy sports car???


ps - Thinkin' back on it, I did drive a friends well done Corvair back 'afore answering machines and beepers.....

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/09/c...-detroit-2012/

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by GXclasschamp

So, GT300 then?

Those cars are almost prototypes and while I do enjoy them, you'll never see a Honda CRZ or Toyota Prius that's a sporty RWD car. What I'm talking about is road going chassis with wider bases, forced induction, on big, wide tires. However, I do understand the point Speed-King made vis-a-vis gentleman drivers. It would be a real problem. I wonder how much money it would take to get a BRZ up to GT2 type spec with less power.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by TheDude

if they all look like this, Bring them on!


Seriously, small displacement "GT" Style cars could be used to boost up regional championships

I bet VLN a lots of them

God, swan neck wings are so ugly.

[GXclasschamp]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Those cars are almost prototypes and while I do enjoy them, you'll never see a Honda CRZ or Toyota Prius that's a sporty RWD car. What I'm talking about is road going chassis with wider bases, forced induction, on big, wide tires. However, I do understand the point Speed-King made vis-a-vis gentleman drivers. It would be a real problem. I wonder how much money it would take to get a BRZ up to GT2 type spec with less power.

How many "small/sporty/low displacement" RWD cars are there to even draw from at this point?

You've obviously got the BRZ/GT86 twins, what else? The Miata/MX5? There's nothing rotary powered in Mazda's lineup these days. The Elise is pretty long in the tooth.

What would you be looking at, base model type caymens? Even the traditional "small" RWD asian cars are getting up there in displacement with the 370z and the 3.8 in the Genesis coupe.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Matt

swan neck wings are so ugly.

I agree, even the BHF looks better to me then those things.

[Starfish Primer]

What about CN class instead of light GTs?

[rwindle]

I voted No.

If we are talking about yet another series remotely similar to the Street Tuner class in Conti Challenge ... I don't watch those wreckathons.

Then, on second thought, I have been a prototype/sports car racing fan since 1963 when I saw my first pictures of Le Mans in Sports Car Graphic magazine ... so I'm probably not the target audience any new series would try to attract.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by GXclasschamp

How many "small/sporty/low displacement" RWD cars are there to even draw from at this point?

You've obviously got the BRZ/GT86 twins, what else? The Miata/MX5? There's nothing rotary powered in Mazda's lineup these days. The Elise is pretty long in the tooth.

What would you be looking at, base model type caymens? Even the traditional "small" RWD asian cars are getting up there in displacement with the 370z and the 3.8 in the Genesis coupe.

Toyota/Subaru
Honda
Alfa
Chevy
Lotus
BMW
Hyundai
Mazda

All make (or plan on making) cars that would fit in a theoretical GTU. All it would take for Nissan is to downsize the Z. Which they really should do anyway, because it's in no mans land.

[GT3.14]

I would like to see the 2 litre Championship make a come back. Production sourced 4 cylinder blocks (everyone has them). No rear spoilers or diffusors allowed, just low drag 500-550kg prototypes relying mostly on mechanical grip. Basically low aero CN prototypes without spec engines.

Ideally it would appeal to the manufacturers more than the WTCC. Manufacturers would tie up with prototype chassis builders to produce the vehicles. Headlamps would be required, and hopefully the manufacturers would use the design language of their production models.

This outrageous dream would see the likes of a Radical-Ford, Lotus, McLaren-Honda, Alpine, Alfa Romeo, Jaguar, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and whoever else running works or works blessed teams and selling customer cars to privateer outfits.

A one hour race on each day of the weekend, with a second driver joining for 1000km races at Monza & Spa on the Saturday of their respective race weekend.

One can only dream.