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Old 20 Apr 2011, 22:17 (Ref:2867261)   #251
AGD
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AGD should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAGD should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Perhaps the ALMS can subsidize the FLM-to-LMP2 LC75 update kit that Oreca has or can make in order to help some teams transition to LMP2. As mentioned earlier, there is some evidence that FLM/LMPC helps get teams into the real classes.

The problem is that the ALMS has created a great spec feeder series. A cost controlled spec feeder series that gets all the attention of the main class. Indy Lights and other feeder single seater categories can't claim that.

The key thing the ACO/IMSA needs to do is figure out the LMP2 rules. Nobody is going to invest in the class if they don't know whether the equipment they buy is going to be competitive. Plus, why should they invest in LMP2 equipment if the LMPCs and maybe even the GTs are going to be just as fast or faster? Also, I think they need to be more clear on what is cost-capped and what isn't. I think the stock block nature of LMP2 could help get American manufacturers back into the prototype ranks at least in terms of providing gear for private teams, but they should not even bother if the French favorites are going to get favorable rules and cost-capped status.

EDIT: I wonder what the LMS will do next year if they decide to dump LMP1. Will they create a new LMP3 type class? If so, will that be faster or slower than FLMs? Perhaps the LMS and ALMS should work together to create decent rules for national series.
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Old 21 Apr 2011, 07:54 (Ref:2867380)   #252
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Originally Posted by AGD View Post

EDIT: I wonder what the LMS will do next year if they decide to dump LMP1. Will they create a new LMP3 type class? If so, will that be faster or slower than FLMs? Perhaps the LMS and ALMS should work together to create decent rules for national series.
The Speed Euroseries (http://www.speedeuroseries.com/) is support at all LMS races this year. Carbon tubs are now legal in Group CN, so you could conceivably create an "LMP3" class of carbon-tubbed CN cars.

As an aside - a free chassis CN class is what IMSA lites should be - then you could include that in ALMS races with an LMP2 class including updated LMPC cars as the main class. The ILMC races could then be LMP2 and LMP1 with the IMSA Lites CN as a support race. If Don wants his series to survive surely that would be a better use of money than the Abruzzi?

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Old 21 Apr 2011, 13:47 (Ref:2867524)   #253
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As an aside - a free chassis CN class is what IMSA lites should be - then you could include that in ALMS races with an LMP2 class including updated LMPC cars as the main class. The ILMC races could then be LMP2 and LMP1 with the IMSA Lites CN as a support race.
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That's the way it was when the idea was brought to them originally. It turned into... how can we sell our own chassis and make more money?
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Old 21 Apr 2011, 14:43 (Ref:2867555)   #254
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gttouring should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The jags still sound good, but they are terribly slow in the corner and some wallowing of the suspension is visible. Gentilozzi made the trans-am jag work because he made the rules suit it, stepping up to a massive internationally present and fuel series and association, he is out classed and out resourced out smarted in every aspect of car development, the aero is nothing like the closests shaped car- the vette. And the car seems a bit taller and larger too.
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Old 21 Apr 2011, 18:43 (Ref:2867689)   #255
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hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridhondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The best years of the ALMS were the 2007 and 2008, the battles between the Audi R10 TDI, Porsche RS Spyder and Acura ARX 01B were fabulous!!!
Why does not return to that equivalency formula? I think that the actually P2 should be competitive for the overall victory with 825 Kg. Then you have a cheap P2 class to take the overall victory. The GTC class must be similar rules to de SCCA and The Grand Am GT, then you have a lot of cars and of course you will have the Mazda RX8 with its fantastic engine’s sound
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Old 21 Apr 2011, 19:26 (Ref:2867717)   #256
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JAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The HPD P1 is an evolution of the Acura P2, if someone ran one they'd be the class of the field with speed and reliability.
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Old 21 Apr 2011, 19:30 (Ref:2867722)   #257
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The best years of the ALMS were the 2007 and 2008, the battles between the Audi R10 TDI, Porsche RS Spyder and Acura ARX 01B were fabulous!!!
Why does not return to that equivalency formula? I think that the actually P2 should be competitive for the overall victory with 825 Kg. Then you have a cheap P2 class to take the overall victory. The GTC class must be similar rules to de SCCA and The Grand Am GT, then you have a lot of cars and of course you will have the Mazda RX8 with its fantastic engine’s sound
The current LMP2 would need more than just a weight reduction to be competitive.

The RX8 is a tube frame car, something that is outside the rules and principles of the ALMS.

I can pick apart the rules, suggest they go to an all GT field, open up GTC..... but in the end, a ship is only as good as it's captain, no matter how you shuffle the chairs on the deck.
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Old 21 Apr 2011, 20:54 (Ref:2867778)   #258
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hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridhondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

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(fogelhund)The current LMP2 would need more than just a weight reduction to be competitive.

The RX8 is a tube frame car, something that is outside the rules and principles of the ALMS.

I can pick apart the rules, suggest they go to an all GT field, open up GTC..... but in the end, a ship is only as good as it's captain, no matter how you shuffle the chairs on the deck.
In 2007 the rules were: Audi R10 TDI 925 Kg/ 750 Hp= 1,233
Porsche RS Spyder 775 Kg/ 550 Hp= 1,409
The diference was 1,409 – 1,233= 0,176 for 150Kg
For 75 Kg the diference was 0,176/2= 0,088
The Acuras Ran with 800 Kg.
It was the best equivalency
In 2008 its were: Audi R10 TDI 925/750= 1,233
Porsches and Acuras 800/550Hp= 1,455
The diference was 1,455 – 1,233= 0,222 for 125 Kg
For 75 Kg the diference was 0,222/5*3= 0,133
Actually the relationship with a P2 run in 825 Kg must be:
P1 900 Kg/ 570 Hp= 1,579
P2 825 Kg/ 500 Hp= 1,65
The diference is 1,65 – 1,579= 0,071 for 75 Kg
Then the relationship in favor of P2 is better than the 2007
And Remember that in 2007 and 2008 the torque of the P2 cars were much lower than the Audi R10 TDI. In the actually the P2 engine have more torque than the P1.
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Old 21 Apr 2011, 21:29 (Ref:2867802)   #259
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JAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Avoiding similar performance/cost between P1/P2 is one of the major goals of the new regs.
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Old 21 Apr 2011, 21:31 (Ref:2867805)   #260
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Originally Posted by hondafan37 View Post
In 2007 the rules were: Audi R10 TDI 925 Kg/ 750 Hp= 1,233
Porsche RS Spyder 775 Kg/ 550 Hp= 1,409
The diference was 1,409 – 1,233= 0,176 for 150Kg
For 75 Kg the diference was 0,176/2= 0,088
The Acuras Ran with 800 Kg.
It was the best equivalency
In 2008 its were: Audi R10 TDI 925/750= 1,233
Porsches and Acuras 800/550Hp= 1,455
The diference was 1,455 – 1,233= 0,222 for 125 Kg
For 75 Kg the diference was 0,222/5*3= 0,133
Actually the relationship with a P2 run in 825 Kg must be:
P1 900 Kg/ 570 Hp= 1,579
P2 825 Kg/ 500 Hp= 1,65
The diference is 1,65 – 1,579= 0,071 for 75 Kg
Then the relationship in favor of P2 is better than the 2007
And Remember that in 2007 and 2008 the torque of the P2 cars were much lower than the Audi R10 TDI. In the actually the P2 engine have more torque than the P1.
All interesting math... yet you've made assumptions on hp that are based upon what?

Perhaps you've come closer to equalizing the privateer LMP1's, with the Nissan powered LMP2's... but most certainly the factory backed P1 cars would still be much faster.

Last edited by Fogelhund; 21 Apr 2011 at 21:37.
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Old 22 Apr 2011, 06:37 (Ref:2867957)   #261
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MitchZ06 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by hondafan37 View Post
The best years of the ALMS were the 2007 and 2008, the battles between the Audi R10 TDI, Porsche RS Spyder and Acura ARX 01B were fabulous!!!
Why does not return to that equivalency formula? I think that the actually P2 should be competitive for the overall victory with 825 Kg. Then you have a cheap P2 class to take the overall victory. The GTC class must be similar rules to de SCCA and The Grand Am GT, then you have a lot of cars and of course you will have the Mazda RX8 with its fantastic engine’s sound
Firstly no the RX8 sounds like a freaking old style open frame electric motor whirring away, bloody terrible.
The best years of ALMS were around the time you mention, GT1 had Corvettes, Saleens and the Astons, LMP was going great guns and there was competition in GT2. ALMS needs a move that'll increase the competition and canning GTC for GT3 would be the best possible idea.
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Old 22 Apr 2011, 06:47 (Ref:2867962)   #262
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Except that the relative performance of GT3 and GT2 is, at least in the eyes of quite a few people on here, too close.

As it is, the GTC Porsches already have plenty of straight-line pace compared to the GT2s. And the GT2s can't be sped up now, or they'd equal or even outrun the new LMPs on the straights. Heck, the Jaguars aren't much slower on the straights than the restricted Lola-Aston Martin that Cytosport is running, which has the 6.0-litre V12, not one of the ex-LMP2 engines.
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