Heidfeld causing ripples at Williams?

[mac]

Both Webber and Heidfeld have impressed in unimpressive equipment in the past.

I think to be able to do that, you have to become a technically sound driver and be capable of picking up on deficiencies in the car.

Being in lowly, slow cars can often really improve a driver as an overall package - look at Button in his horrid time at Benetton!

Make no mistake, this is a high quality driver lineup capable of taking a WCC title given the right car.

[dcp2685]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

No, he wasn't - they we're evenly matched.

Go and check the lap times!

Agreed KB...the points don't tell the story.

Looking at true results if i have my math right, in races where HHF and NH finished together....NH won 4 of 7 times. Nick had 2 mechanical failures in the first three races which saw HHF grab 6 quick points. I don't recall the races at all and couldn't say where NH was but perhaps he was in front.

In the races where NH beat HHF he grabbed 2 points (2 - 8ths') head to head. HHF also had 2 or 3 accidents where nick had none.

[RWC]

It's allways good to see nick do well.
He didn't deserve the mclaren seat ahead of kimi but he CERTAINLY didn't deserve to be dropped into the crud cars

I see some are stupidly trying to argue speed based on points earned....it aint that simple

[marcel82]

this just confirms that Williams have some very good people turning their wheels

[N I Tram]

Originally Posted by dcp2685

Agreed KB...the points don't tell the story.

Looking at true results if i have my math right, in races where HHF and NH finished together....NH won 4 of 7 times. Nick had 2 mechanical failures in the first three races which saw HHF grab 6 quick points. I don't recall the races at all and couldn't say where NH was but perhaps he was in front.

In the races where NH beat HHF he grabbed 2 points (2 - 8ths') head to head. HHF also had 2 or 3 accidents where nick had none.

Precisely. It's not a driver's fault if he has problems in the races he could've otherwise scored in. Frentzen was lucky to get results in the races which suited Sauber (specifically, the wet races). Actual pace proves that Nick was the better of the two.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by DKGandBH

If you can make a bad car (Minardi) perform above where it belongs, then this displays true talent just as much as winning in a good car does.

Just like Nick in the 2004 Jordan?

[Kicking-back]

Exactly.

[BootsOntheSide]

In my mind, Senna's greatest achievements weren't his 3 world titles in superior machinery, as much as the 5 wins in the 1993 car (including that amazing Donington drive) or the 16 poles across 3 years in increasingly uncompetitive Lotuses (Loti?). Likewise Schumacher's efforts in the late-90s Ferraris were probably just as impressive as the last few seasons, even though they didn't bring titles.

Off-topic, but I think relevent. Nick and Mark both have a chance to record their best results yet, but I suspect one will find their reputation dropping by the end of the year.

[Snrub]

I felt NH was pretty darn close to HHF in 2003, with a slight edge going to HHF. How would this comparison go if HHF had a slightly better car in '99 and was a former WDC? Everyone would be saying how amazing NH is. The guy has talent.

Even Williams has admitted that their car will be poor to start with. It should be interesting to see how things play out. I think Williams' two drivers will be well suited to the challange, in both past experience and their desire to acheive with something better than they've driven in the past.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Off-topic, but I think relevent. Nick and Mark both have a chance to record their best results yet, but I suspect one will find their reputation dropping by the end of the year.

I see a re-run of the 1997 Williams scenario here, and thats mainly because, imo, Nick won't be a strong enough character for the Williams outfit, just as HH-F wasn't being partnered with JV, Mark's character will help him gain the upper hand initally, and his talent will do the rest.

[Mike_Wooshy]

Originally Posted by DKGandBH

You don't need good a car to show off your skills. In fact, I think the reverse is quite true...

If you can make a bad car (Minardi) perform above where it belongs, then this displays true talent just as much as winning in a good car does.

Talent does not come from the car.

DKGandBH

Thats why he is good cuz the jordan last year was so bad !!!

[Wrex]

Nick v Mark
Nick v HHF

Bah, getting old.

I am really pleased as a Williams fan. They have a great line-up IMHO. No ego's, just 2 guys desperate to get results. From all accounts they get on well together, and neither has a reputation like Monty or Ralf for team mate issues.

I am cautiously confident for Williams. I do hope all these 'Nick will cream Webber' folks are still around at the end of the season when everyone is saying "Webber is good, but has still never had a good team mate".

[krt917]

Originally Posted by mac

I think to be able to do that, you have to become a technically sound driver and be capable of picking up on deficiencies in the car.

Being in lowly, slow cars can often really improve a driver as an overall package - look at Button in his horrid time at Benetton!

Make no mistake, this is a high quality driver lineup capable of taking a WCC title given the right car.

Well said!

[N I Tram]

As Murray Walker said re Button's 2001 season - "any experience is good experience, even if it's bad experience". If anything, I'd change that to ESPECIALLY if it's bad experience, because when you're up against it you can learn how to really get the best out of a car, and cope with a run of races with no reward. Considering their pre-season runs, it looks quite feasible that at some point Mark or Nick could drive flawless races with no mechanical problems, and still not score points. As Webber signed this deal a long time ago in the belief that he'd be on course to challenge for wins, he might find that hard to take, although he's used to it.

[Glen]

Williams failing to score points from trouble-free weekends? Now this is just getting silly! You guys really buy into the testing stories don't you?

OK, so there's a good chance that Renault and/or McLaren will beat Williams in the first race, but to suggest that they won't be scoring points is just daft.

[BootsOntheSide]

If reliability is high (which looks unlikely) Williams cars finishing 7th and 9th or so isn't impossible. We don't really know how good Webber is yet, and Ralf, DC and Jarno could all reasonably be rejouvinated. I'd say it's unliekly that all of thsoe things will happen together, but I can't see them getting more than a few fluke podiums, much as I hope I'm wrong.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I see a re-run of the 1997 Williams scenario here, and thats mainly because, imo, Nick won't be a strong enough character for the Williams outfit, just as HH-F wasn't being partnered with JV, Mark's character will help him gain the upper hand initally, and his talent will do the rest.

That's what I said too.

[Pitstop]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I see a re-run of the 1997 Williams scenario here, and thats mainly because, imo, Nick won't be a strong enough character for the Williams outfit, just as HH-F wasn't being partnered with JV, Mark's character will help him gain the upper hand initally, and his talent will do the rest.

I also agree. I wish Nick well, I really do, but I feel he's going to be the fall guy this season.

[Rennen]

"Causing Ripples"!...Well he'll be the man overboard, when JB jumps ship!

[f1_carzy]

But he may be the man in the lead when BMW buy Sauber

[Hazza]

I just find it ironic that BMW has 2 of the best drivers who both got shafted by the Mercedes driver program, iirc, that is.

[BootsOntheSide]

And Mercedes has two of the best drivers, full stop. Honestly, would anyone prefer Mark and Nick to Kimi and JPM? Assuming they can gel at McLaren, I'd say they've go the better pairing.

[Gt_R]

i can only say that, as far as F1 is concern, both teams have drivers with "potential to be hugely successful", but so far, only Mclaren have F1 race-winners in their cars. Indeed, Mclaren seem to have a stronger pairing.

[Mike_Wooshy]

There are other teams with strong parings too.
Bar, Renualt, Toyota, all of those have potential,
and the classic Pairing of Schumacher and Brawn this year. It really depends on which team can diliver(sp?) the best car. Right now Mclaren and Renualt seem to have shown strongest over winter.

[Dobbo89]

okay I am biased, but the one that makes waves rarely wins. webber will win because he will shut up and get on with the job, nick will still be whingeing 3 months in, isnt that just like a pom.