Rosberg vs Hamilton

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Which is more petulant/childish/pouty? Being grumpy after losing a race in a season where every single point is going to count, or cheating to win the race in the first place?

Get some balance.

Cheating to win the race? Are you talking about Lewis turning his engine up in Spain to beat a team mate he couldn't deal with otherwise? I wouldn't really call it "cheating" but I guess it was unsportsmanlike.

Or are you talking about the mistake made in Monaco Q? It would need to be deliberate to be "cheating" and in any case was not to win a race but to come out on top in Q. Come the race, it was clear that Nico had better pace than Lewis (even before LH had something in his eye) so the Q "cheat" doesn't seem particularly relevant. I'm with most though, looked like a genuine mistake to me.

Nothing wrong with being grumpy at losing a race but much of the LH petulance was before the race (talking about upbringing & then the reaction to the Q mistake). After the race, I can understand grumpy as they all want to win but when your team mate has driven away from you through the race in the same car, it would be the mark of a grown up to congratulate them on a job well done.

Nothing wrong with my balance thanks mate!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Interesting when you say, you shudder to think what would have happened to your childhood if you truly knew what your favorite sports heros thoughts on race or gender. Maybe that's a facet of being a good sportsperson, all that's kept under wraps, no one is any the wiser and it isn't allowed it interfere with the task at hand. In that respect then and despite what was going on in Lewis's head, a hand shake would have sufficed and it would have been left at that but as you rightly point out there's the human element and it got the better of Lewis as it has done in the past.

really well said!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

really well said!

Much appreciated, .

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

really well said!

Ditto ....

[davyboy]

Here's a lesson for Lewis on how to handle yourself when finishing second - with humor, dignity and a ton of respect earned from those who watch him as well as those he competes against.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Cheating to win the race? Are you talking about Lewis turning his engine up in Spain to beat a team mate he couldn't deal with otherwise? I wouldn't really call it "cheating" but I guess it was unsportsmanlike.

Or are you talking about the mistake made in Monaco Q? It would need to be deliberate to be "cheating" and in any case was not to win a race but to come out on top in Q. Come the race, it was clear that Nico had better pace than Lewis (even before LH had something in his eye) so the Q "cheat" doesn't seem particularly relevant. I'm with most though, looked like a genuine mistake to me.

Nothing wrong with being grumpy at losing a race but much of the LH petulance was before the race (talking about upbringing & then the reaction to the Q mistake). After the race, I can understand grumpy as they all want to win but when your team mate has driven away from you through the race in the same car, it would be the mark of a grown up to congratulate them on a job well done.

Nothing wrong with my balance thanks mate!

In two cars the same, at Monaco, the man on pole will almost always win (It's not a race per-se, more a procession of fast cars with the fastest at the front). So you come out top in quali, you are more than likely to win. LH was on a faster lap at the end of quali -he was possibly going to get pole and therefore the win. His slightly slower race pace is fairly irrelevant since NR would be unable to overtake given the almost perfectly matched cars.

Note, I am NOT saying the NR stopped deliberately. Just that I can see LH point of view and why he might be upset at what happened. He likely lost that race because NR stopped, not because he was slower. I think that is cause for being a bit cheesed off, and not a reason for the slagging he is getting.

People should appreciate that LH is LH and not Justin Beiber.

[OZ_HCR32]

Guy is a champion for so many reasons outside of any race result.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't agree with you about the global 24hour news necessarily affecting sporting conduct. There are many modern sports men and women who live up to 'my standard'.

Of course there are, because there are a hell of a lot of sportmen and women out there there are bound to be some chilled ones.

But how many of those are right at the very top of their sport, and get the sort of attention people at the top of F1 get? And are under the same pressure?

You can afford to be magnanimous when you are not competing at the very top...

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Here's a lesson for Lewis on how to handle yourself when finishing second - with humor, dignity and a ton of respect earned from those who watch him as well as those he competes against.

Cracking bloke that one. When someone has a talent for talking, it really shows, as it does when you don't have one...Guy is lucky in that he certainly has a talent for riding as well as talking!

[321Go]

Originally Posted by JamesH

...cheating to win the race in the first place

Originally Posted by JamesH

I am NOT saying the NR stopped deliberately.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Of course there are, because there are a hell of a lot of sportmen and women out there there are bound to be some chilled ones.

But how many of those are right at the very top of their sport, and get the sort of attention people at the top of F1 get? And are under the same pressure?

You can afford to be magnanimous when you are not competing at the very top...

I can think of a number of sportsmen and women who are at the top of their sport and who get far more media attentrion than F1 drivers do. F1 is not the most popular sport in the world.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Note, I am NOT saying the NR stopped deliberately. Just that I can see LH point of view and why he might be upset at what happened. He likely lost that race because NR stopped, not because he was slower. I think that is cause for being a bit cheesed off, and not a reason for the slagging he is getting.

Only cheesed off with himself (!)

Putting aside the allegations of cheating, by his own admission, Lewis should have set his fastest lap first. He didn't, which meant that he had to try again... which in turn meant that he was exposed to yellow flags, red flags not to mention the chance of a mistake he might make. To say he was on a faster lap is direct from the book of racing drivers' excuses... because you only know whether or not it's a faster lap when you've crossed the line !

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Putting aside the allegations of cheating, by his own admission, Lewis should have set his fastest lap first. He didn't, which meant that he had to try again... which in turn meant that he was exposed to yellow flags, red flags not to mention the chance of a mistake he might make. To say he was on a faster lap is direct from the book of racing drivers' excuses... because you only know whether or not it's a faster lap when you've crossed the line !

i agree completely. i also agree that drivers making excuses is such a common thing that a joke reference to there being a book of such excuses is plausible given how useless and transparent their explanations usually are.

in other words it implies that drivers moaning about stuff is in fact such a common thing that one is left wondering why this particular common and banal moan has drawn so much ire.

[John Turner]

Yeah, I agree too, davyboy; nothing is guaranteed; he could also have gone down the escape road and finished 'parked' next to NR.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Yeah, I agree too, davyboy; nothing is guaranteed; he could also have gone down the escape road and finished 'parked' next to NR.

Now that would have been funny!!!!

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Only cheesed off with himself (!)

Putting aside the allegations of cheating, by his own admission, Lewis should have set his fastest lap first. He didn't, which meant that he had to try again... which in turn meant that he was exposed to yellow flags, red flags not to mention the chance of a mistake he might make. To say he was on a faster lap is direct from the book of racing drivers' excuses... because you only know whether or not it's a faster lap when you've crossed the line !

Very true mate, very true. No guarantees in sport - the whole idea of needing to put in a gun lap near the end of Qual in Monaco is fraught with risk. In this case, his team mate overcooked it but it could have been any other car or LH himself - "if" or "if only" doesn't win you anything.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Very true mate, very true. No guarantees in sport - the whole idea of needing to put in a gun lap near the end of Qual in Monaco is fraught with risk. In this case, his team mate overcooked it but it could have been any other car or LH himself - "if" or "if only" doesn't win you anything.

I must admit that I have never understood this last minute qualifying nonsense!

[numbersix]

On the question of whether NR could have engineered the incident with sufficient skill to allow officials to give him the benefit of the doubt, I would say absolutely yes.

At the 2008 BGP I was stationed at Copse Exit which gave me a perfect line of sight on cars going wide at Copse. Michael Schumacher (God help him) was going just wide enough on every lap for me to radio it in. After a number of laps I told race control he was doing it every lap. They told me they would get the Race Director to have a word with his team.

On the very next lap Michael went wide - but not wide enough for me to be certain. And every lap thereafter, he went wide, but not wide enough for me to be assured of making the right call.

I was a masterpiece of driving. At 130mph he was judging a slide to within an inch - every single time.

The best F1 drivers are like fighter pilots and in complete command of their machines to a level we will probably never comprehend. On that basis I would say NR had both the skill and motivation to pull off this bit of gamesmanship to the point where the Stewards, or anyone else, would not be able to make the call. Maybe that's what got LH into a huff.

One thing is certain - it's got LH's dander up! And we could do with a lot more dander in F1. Canada will be interesting.

[Cookie85]

I totally agree with numbersix here, whether he did it deliberately or not only he knows, but he definitely had the skill and ability to be able to pull it off.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Two differing takes on the Hamilton/Rosberg situation.

Toto Wolff thinks he can control it,

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114243

and Robert Kubica thinks tensions will continue.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114263

[Paradise City]

Wolff has it sussed. If there was another team biting at their heals, the balancing act would be trickier but that really isn't the case unless Ferrari or Red Bull have some astonishing mid season revolution in form.

[davyboy]

Pretty much right. In fact, given the dominance Merc have right now, a feud between the two drivers is actually a good thing. It keeps the spotlight on the front whereas otherwise attention would be diverted to the battle for third. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the whole thing's been staged !

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by wnut

I must admit that I have never understood this last minute qualifying nonsense!

Really? The tracks beds in with every second an F1 car is on it running at speed, and gets faster as the grip levels rise due to the increased level of rubber on the track. Rubber sticks to rubber much better than rubber sticks to tarmac.

That said, I'm a firm believer in getting a banker lap in before the last few minutes of qualifying, but because of the above, it's not going to be the fastest lap if the session completes without incident.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Really? The tracks beds in with every second an F1 car is on it running at speed, and gets faster as the grip levels rise due to the increased level of rubber on the track. Rubber sticks to rubber much better than rubber sticks to tarmac.

That said, I'm a firm believer in getting a banker lap in before the last few minutes of qualifying, but because of the above, it's not going to be the fastest lap if the session completes without incident.

You are correct, I don't however believe that the track gets that much better in the last seconds of the final session, however this is usually when the fuel load is the lightest so the times are the quickest.
I would have just moved the whole process up a little, so if someone does get a yellow and the session is stopped you could still sort out the mess and put in the banzai lap.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Really? The tracks beds in with every second an F1 car is on it running at speed, and gets faster as the grip levels rise due to the increased level of rubber on the track. Rubber sticks to rubber much better than rubber sticks to tarmac.

That said, I'm a firm believer in getting a banker lap in before the last few minutes of qualifying, but because of the above, it's not going to be the fastest lap if the session completes without incident.

This is less relevant at Monaco though... and is heavily outweighed by the risks I indicated earlier.