Brabham BT28-29-30-35-36 - Page 4

Andrew Fellowes · 16 Nov 2003, 09:02 (Ref:784869)

Noted the computer apology, Remarkable because computers being female don’t usually apologise.

Racing Car News 1973? (photo copy missing last line).

"The strongest ever Australian attack on the Manilla Grand Prix, run in the capital of the Philippines at the end of January …..met defeat. …. Two other Australians appeared in Manilla, running in the F Libre 50-lapper the day after the GP. They were John MacDonald, now resident of Hong Kong, who drives a Brabham Ford."

What I don’t have is the results or evidence it was a BT36. I will borrow the mag again.

Shellsport G8
16th April 1976 Oulton Park. Bob Howlings BT36 BDA 10th

27th June 1976 Mallory Park John Tait BT36 BDA & Philip Guerola BT30 BDA both did not start.

2nd October 1977 John Tait BT36 BDA 31 laps not classified

Was John Tait in Bob Howlings' car or his own? - if Howlings had an ex Rondel in '76 was this the same car?

David thanks for the note, reply sent.

David McKinney · 16 Nov 2003, 09:44 (Ref:784898)

McDonald was racing a BT40 by 1973

Re Bryan's last run-down:

BT36-3
appeared fairly regularly in European historic racing from 1984 (or perhaps even earlier) until 1998

BT36-8
Barak raced in 1975 as well. I have a vague recollection of hearing he still owned the car in the late 1980s

BT36-11
in European historic racing early 1990s

Bryan Miller · 16 Nov 2003, 22:32 (Ref:785258)

Thanks for the updates .

With all these cars , please don't anyone think I am casting aspersions re. histories, in BT35-8's case , who would believe that a car could be purchased in 1977 , dismanteled and stored for 22 years, untill I purchased in 1999.
I have recently been advised of a BT30 in the U.K. ch.no. unknown as yet , that has been in the same hands since 1979.
BT36X, Mike Macdowell hillclimb car , is in a museum in Europe, how long has that been there??????
All I am trying to achieve is finding out what these cars have been up to , if anything.

Bryan.

HENDERZSON · 18 Nov 2003, 22:48 (Ref:787694)

Hi Bryan,
A few comments on the BT36 updated listing and misc ads. Two of the misc. ads are for BT36-10.The first one is East Horsley/4 months (Nick Overall ad) and the second ad (Goldaming)is the one I responded to in Dec 76 and then bought my brabham from Mike Gue.
Also, BT36-1 was up for sale in 76 and bought from Bob Howlings by ? owner in late 76.I saw the car eraly in 77 and verified #1 chassis no.
Ian

Bryan Miller · 18 Nov 2003, 23:46 (Ref:787738)

Ian .
Thats great , when dealers are also drivers , we can't discern if they have their own ''pet '' car , or keep demonstrating stock , and turning them over.
So Howlings was BT36-1 from ??????? to mid 1976 , when he announces retirement , and car for sale,and looks like it goes to Tait.
This means the advert. 1-1-1976 , is BT36-1 as well.

This then gives us a pretty full trail for BT36-10 , up to purchase by yourself, apart from a bit of a light time 1974-6 , with Overall appearing to do very little if anything with car.

Further update on BT30-11, or described as ex John Watson actually.
For sale A/S. 26-1-1978 p.54.
BT30 ex. John Watson , rolling chassis , superb condition , for sale.

Can anybody advise what BT30 Jim Johnstone , fitted FVA was using in hills circa mid 1978.

Confusing advert. A/S 11-5-1978 , BT30 and BT38 , brand new rolling chassis for sale , I think the adv. refers to only the BT38 as brand new.

Bryan.

David McKinney · 19 Nov 2003, 06:05 (Ref:787880)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
Can anybody advise what BT30 Jim Johnstone , fitted FVA was using in hills circa mid 1978.

No, but Chris Seaman hillclimbed it with a BDA for ten years or so from 1983

And I'm sure I don't need to provide a word of caution re Bobby Howlings. He had lots of small single-seaters at any one time, and I rather got the impression he raced whatever was in stock

Bryan Miller · 19 Nov 2003, 06:35 (Ref:787887)

Thanks ,David , that is why I had not called out anything in regard to him, except in this case from start of 1976 , with his adv. and incl. a photo at the G8 race in April 76 of the car with it's Rondel nose, pretty much devines it at that date as BT36-1.
What I really should have said was from at least start of 1976 , and poss. earlier.

Re. BT35X-2 , now in Japan, this car is in the archives section of Race-cars.com as for sale some years ago.
States rebuilt by Simon Hadfield , only problem is ,the car has been rebuilt as a std. F2 with big bulgy side tanks etc. none of which it would have had in 5.0 litre hillclimb days, so another car looses it's true identity.

Bryan.

HENDERZSON · 19 Nov 2003, 20:36 (Ref:788663)

From mid 76 John Tait owner/raced BT36-1. That was the name I was trying to remember. I met John in UK and confirm that he had bought BT36-1 and had rondel nose and FVC engine. Later changed to FVA for G8 event at Thruxton Aug. 77. The race report for G8 'not classified' 31 laps is correct, the car was not v.competitive against much more modern entries.
The other Ad for a BT36/BDA in Newcastle,March 75 could be for BT36-10, that is the timeframe that Nick Overall acquired my car. Ian

Andrew Fellowes · 21 Nov 2003, 05:31 (Ref:790211)

Very interesting on 36-1 as I had been told it was in France from ’74 to 86. Clearly not so!

The table below is taken from my files of HSCC Pre ’71 entries & results. I have attempted to list which year driver & car first appeared. (I have no results for 1984 as I took that year off).
Can anyone add the missing chassis numbers to the following for me?

1985
BT30-6 Jim Wallis, Brands Hatch (also raced a M19A McLaren that year)
BT30-? Marcus King, Thruxton, & if I remember correctly dark green & wingless
BT35-? John Bryning, Silverstone.
BT30-3 Chris Mann, Snetterton.

1986
BT30-8 Andrew Fellowes, Oulton Park,
BT35-? Ray Mallock at Oulton, D.N.F
BT35-44 Fred Edwards, Thruxton
BT35-? Nick Overall, Silverstone

1987
BT35-? Nigel Fehler, Donington

1988
BT35-6 Keith Norman, Brands Hatch
BT36-1 John Harper, Thruxton
BT35-28 Lincoln Small, Thruxton

1989
BT36-1 Peter Williams, Donington

1990
BT36-? Fredy Kumschick entered Hans Peter at Brands Hatch on the 2nd June.
BT30-? Michael Baudoin at the Nuerburgring on the 9th August.

David McKinney · 21 Nov 2003, 06:44 (Ref:790241)

I was trotting around paddocks with my little notebook throughout the period, but can't add as much as I hoped I might:

1985
BT30-6 Jim Wallis, Brands Hatch (also raced a M19A McLaren that year)
BT30-20 Marcus King, Thruxton, & if I remember correctly dark green & wingless
BT35-? John Bryning, Silverstone.
BT30-3 Chris Mann, Snetterton.

1986
BT30-8 Andrew Fellowes, Oulton Park,
BT35-? Ray Mallock at Oulton, D.N.F
BT35-44 Fred Edwards, Thruxton
BT35-? Nick Overall, Silverstone - ex-Gerard/Salisbury, Wingfield etc

1987
BT35-? Nigel Fehler, Donington

1988
BT35-6 Keith Norman, Brands Hatch
BT36-1 John Harper, Thruxton
BT35-28 Lincoln Small, Thruxton

1989
BT36-1 Peter Williams, Donington

1990
BT36-3 Fredy Kumschick entered Hans Peter at Brands Hatch on the 2nd June.
BT30-20 Michael Baudoin at the Nuerburgring on the 9th August.

Bryan Miller · 21 Nov 2003, 08:09 (Ref:790265)

David.

10 demerit points for not recording the ellusive BT35 /Gerrard /Salisbury chassis number.

Originally Andrew reported BT35 -? with Nick Overall in 1986, Then David reports that it is indeed ex. Gerrard /Salisbury car.
I have kept all sorts of snippets , and in Motor Sport May 1997 p.583 , Nick Overall has a colour advert. for BT35-28.
Much admired and raced in HSCC events,states the advert.

Could we have uncovered the Gerrard/ Salisbury BT35 ch.no.

Do we know where the car is now ?

Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 21 Nov 2003, 08:27 (Ref:790276)

If one reads all presented to one , one may make less mistakes.

Can we connect BT35-28 raced by Lincoln Small at Thruxton in 1988 to Nick Overall in 1986 , or to Nick Overall in Motor Sport adv. 1997 .

Bryan.

Jeremy Jackson · 21 Nov 2003, 08:47 (Ref:790293)

Although I guess Nick Overall may have raced more than 1 BT35, I have Overall in a BT35 1987-92, and Lincoln Small in BT35-28 1987-94, including:
Donington 13/9/92 Small & Overall at the same meeting in BT35s.

Also, in HSCC events:
In 1991, John Harper in BT35-35, and Nick Buttress in an unidentified car in 1993

Andrew Fellowes · 21 Nov 2003, 11:03 (Ref:790412)

Thanks, Thats filled another small gap or two but still leaves Overall/Small 35's in question.

I have a feeling that Ray Mallock might have been driving Brynings car at Oulton. I know that he did at Brands as John had a U2 as well and both cars were entered by his company Lithofast.

David McKinney · 21 Nov 2003, 19:35 (Ref:790974)

The Overall and Small cars were definitely different beasts and, as Jeremy says, often appeared in the same race. Overall was (is?) in the business of buying and selling old racing cars, which would explain his offering BT35-28 on behalf of Small (or perhaps a subsequent owner) in 1997.
I accept your demerit points for not discovering the no. of Overall’s car, Bryan, but you have to remember that I was at these meetings as a reporter, perhaps covering ten races in different classes, which meant a lot of people to get around (and races to watch). If I had time for my own pursuits, I might race around the paddock noting as many c/no’s as I had time for (starting with anything F1 and working down). If there was no plate on the instrument panel, or easily visible elsewhere, I would move on to the next car. I might sometime have taken the time to ask an owner, but the cars were often unattended.
Buttress’s 1993 car was the one Overall had been racing until then. I haven’t hard of it since.

Bryan Miller · 21 Nov 2003, 22:21 (Ref:791084)

David.

I should be doing exactly the same in my position of Hewland distributor at the current F3 championship races over here for all the Dallara's , however for exactly similar reasons I have to admit I am not.

BT35-28 , corrections if I am wrong please , but this appears to be the first time , when Lincoln Small appears at Thruxton in 1988 , that we have seen this chassis number reported.

Bryan.

David McKinney · 21 Nov 2003, 22:23 (Ref:791086)

I may have noted it in 1987 (he did race it that year)

Bryan Miller · 21 Nov 2003, 22:49 (Ref:791108)

David.

I went and looked at earlier post by yourself, as you were posting.

You reported in Swiss Hillclimbs 1971, Euro F3 in 1972-3, and Small 1988-1994, thence sale by Overall in 1997 .

So we have a long trail , I will have to do a complete rebuild on all the ch.nos. in our posts etc. so I don't make the same mistake again.
So we are still back to not having a ch.no. for Salisbury/ Gerrard car , and if you did not note it easily in the paddock, maybe the plate has gone A.W.O.L.

When I started this I was aware the BT35's were going to be a nuisance, but never did I think they would be so intertwined, and it appears more so now in Historic in 2000's

Andrew, this suggests that Lincoln Small had two cars at the same time, as you reported earlier Lincoln purchased BT30-16 via Ted Walker in 1986 and retains today.
Bryan.

Jeremy Jackson · 22 Nov 2003, 00:04 (Ref:791148)

If it helps, I have Small in the BT35 up to 1994, and the first time I saw him with BT30-16 was May 1995.

Bryan Miller · 22 Nov 2003, 00:13 (Ref:791153)

Jeremy.

Thank you, probably racing BT35 untill BT30 ready to re-enter the fray.

David McKinney · 22 Nov 2003, 07:06 (Ref:791248)

Small had the BT30 in 1994, though whether he raced it that year I'm not sure
Your "probabilty" theory isn't quite right, Bryan. He was a regular competitor in HSCC events with the BT35, and bought the BT30 to compete in the FIA European F2 series (though as I remember was never a regular competitor in it)
And before someone asks, the BT35 raced (once?) by Laurence Edscer in 1994 was Small's. It was also raced that year, still in Small's ownership, by someone whose name I didn't note - John someone?

Andrew Fellowes · 22 Nov 2003, 07:53 (Ref:791259)

I went to see Lincoln's ex Derek Bell BT30 in 1986(?) at his house. (sensible man has a coffee machine in every room) His garage was one to die for, room to fit several cars and decorated to match. He never raced the Bell car in pre 71 in the 80's because he regarded it as too much to risk in that series.

He has just moved house and when settled will be going through his files for us. This is the car that is listed in the FORCE series, I assume the same as the one you refer to David, unless he he has more than one!!!

Bryan Miller · 22 Nov 2003, 07:53 (Ref:791261)

Thanks David.

Re. BT35-6, in the course of my business I visited Autosport show 2001 at Birmingham , and on display was I am sure BT35-6 , it was either -6 or -10 , as I noted the car was 2 ch.no. away from mine.
I believe the owner was Keith Norman,the car was on display with an R.A.C. service unit , for the purpose of signing up new members.

Am I correct with the owner , still having the car at that time.????

Probable's and possible's just don't work do they.??
Bryan.

David McKinney · 22 Nov 2003, 10:34 (Ref:791321)

Interesting...
I have Norman's name against 35/6 in 1988, but then with Robert Haze in the Netherlands 1992-95-
Of course there are several possible explanations....

Bryan Miller · 22 Nov 2003, 22:19 (Ref:791680)

Certainly the car was at the show , and looking very correct, the name Keith Norman rang a bell , but I am now questioning my memory, the lady I spoke to advised that the car was looked after at race meetings primarily by R.A.C. service people.