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12 Aug 2002, 22:02 (Ref:356434)
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,421
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Why did Jaguar go downhill after buying Stewart?
I don't understand it. Surely having bought Stewart Ford when they were on a roll in 1999, they should now be getting podiums and wins reguarly by now under the Jaguar name. So what went wrong?
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12 Aug 2002, 22:28 (Ref:356466)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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Miserably bad managment.
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
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12 Aug 2002, 22:58 (Ref:356499)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 663
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No wind Tunnel, Lack of management and direction, Internal politics and most of all the paint colour.
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__________________
It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail - Gore Vidal
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12 Aug 2002, 23:00 (Ref:356501)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,223
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Quote:
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12 Aug 2002, 23:17 (Ref:356510)
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#5 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,602
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Too many bosses .
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__________________
MOTOR RACING ...The general idea is that the driver behind uses all his Skills, Tricks and Courage to try and overtake the guy ( or Girl ) in front !
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12 Aug 2002, 23:26 (Ref:356517)
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#6 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,156
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Re: Why did Jaguar go downhill after buying Stewart?
Quote:
I am sure if he stays for two more years, Jaguar will file for bankruptcy. |
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12 Aug 2002, 23:39 (Ref:356533)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,294
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Everything was perfect at Stewart in 1999 but when Ford took over they brought in new people, changed the management and various other factors have just left Jaguar behind.
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__________________
Sunderland Til I Die!
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13 Aug 2002, 00:57 (Ref:356565)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 731
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I have to agree w/ Champ69...it's the paint scheme.
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13 Aug 2002, 02:34 (Ref:356600)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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What about Rahal? Does anyone care to speculate where jag would be if he had not been removed? Was he on the right track or just another puzzle piece that did not fit?
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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13 Aug 2002, 02:38 (Ref:356603)
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#10 | |||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,305
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Quote:
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__________________
Go Tribe!!!!
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13 Aug 2002, 09:46 (Ref:356711)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,000
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Jaguar have been a farce from day 1. There have been too many different people involved in managing the team along the way (Neil Ressler, Jackie Stewart, Paul Stewart, Bobby Rahal, Niki Lauda, Richard Parry-Jones, Gunther Steiner), they haven't got a consistant enough design team, internal squabbling has been too intense, they overpay Irvine, and try to solve every problem by throwing FoMoCo money at it. Sport doesn't work like that.
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13 Aug 2002, 10:10 (Ref:356721)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 565
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No er..fiscally responsible Scottsman running the show...
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__________________
Six out of seven dwarfs aren't Happy..
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13 Aug 2002, 10:13 (Ref:356722)
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#13 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 469
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Isn't the question round the wrong way - Surely it should be why did stewart go down hill after selling out to Jag?
However the reasons above are all valid... |
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13 Aug 2002, 13:51 (Ref:356867)
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#14 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,742
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they insulted the mysterious spirit of le mans!
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__________________
I want you to drive flat out
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13 Aug 2002, 13:55 (Ref:356874)
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#15 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,038
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Most of the points above are valid, although as I look at my diecast R1, I find the colors quite pleasing.
When Jag initially took over from Stewart, the idea was to create a new team from essentialy a clean sheet. Ressler wanted the team to have the sense that what they developed was their own. Of course this amounted to re-inventing the wheel (almost literally) and they ran into early development problems in such areas as the oil delivery systems. Although I would have liked to seen them market themselves more in North America, I got the sense that they tried to create support in the UK by overmarketing themselves before they had a team worthy of fan support. I know any US sports team that tries to pass itself off as "America's Team", is in for a tough time from the fans(Atlanta Braves, Dallas Cowboys). No doubt countless leadership changes haven't helped. Although I'm not one to lay all blame at the feet of Lauda, I would have liked to see Ressler and Jackie Stewart stay on managerialy, with team leadership from Rahal. I'm still a fan, albeit a dissapointed one. I'm not one of those that predict Ford's economic woes will spell the end of Jag F1. With sound, stable management and steady technological improvements, they still may become a contender in F1. |
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__________________
"Life is short...go deep."
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13 Aug 2002, 18:16 (Ref:357029)
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#16 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,953
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Overconfidence from a slightly flukey year?
And green's an unlucky colour for racers, apparently. 'Nuff said! |
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__________________
Classic Eddie Irvine moments, #1 Interviewer: "Why has Schumacher got an odd shaped helmet?" Eddie: "Because he's German, he's got an odd shaped head"
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13 Aug 2002, 19:00 (Ref:357060)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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Remember the CEO of Ford asking indignantly, "Who the hell is this Edmund Irvine that makes almost as much money as me?"
Miserably disconnected management, or what we like to call "CV CEOs" -- people who want to strut around and tell other people that they have a racing team, but they don't actually want the bother of actually giving it any attention. They should have bought it, rebadged it, and left it to Stewart to run it. Then they'd all have been happy and Rubens would be WDC. 
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore
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13 Aug 2002, 21:07 (Ref:357226)
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#18 | |||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,038
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Quote:
That aside, I don't think you can make a case that Nasser was disconnected from the F1 effort. He made a commitment to motorsports that many at Ford hope will hold through the current administration of Bill Ford Jr. Nasser was very low key in his support of Jaguar, and did not make a point of "showing it off". No, I don't think the 'blame', if there is blame to be laid, is with Ford. I'm not sure there even would be a Stewart Racing Team (or even a Jaguar Auto Company) had Ford, or someone else, not entered the picture. Many mistakes and bad fortune have caused Jaguar to underperform. But to say that Ford was either too involved, or too not-involved is not the reason. I think it's the color green.
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__________________
"Life is short...go deep."
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14 Aug 2002, 08:34 (Ref:357485)
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#19 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,742
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1-2-3 successful teams max...11 on the grid - do the math.
renault, toyota, honda, and ford...they've obviously misplaced the company calculator. |
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__________________
I want you to drive flat out
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14 Aug 2002, 10:40 (Ref:357568)
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#20 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 354
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They should have bought Stewart for the 2001 season, giving Stewart an extra year in the sport. When Jaguar bought Stewart, the team should have kept the same team personell and continued, but named Jaguar (and with the new paintwork)
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__________________
Why has my signature been deleted?!? [because you don't seem to understand "3 lines max" - Admin] [b][i]Sun is in the sky, oh why, oh why would I wanna be anywhere else?[/b][/i]
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14 Aug 2002, 10:43 (Ref:357573)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,071
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Well, starting from 2000 was OK, but THAT should have been a year under Stewert with Jaguar colours...
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__________________
Don't let manufacturers ruin F1. RIP Tyrrell, Arrows, Prost, Minardi, Jordan.
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14 Aug 2002, 11:16 (Ref:357602)
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#22 | ||
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14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,639
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I'm not sure the way the team changed over from Stewart to Jaguar would have made much difference. It might not have been such a PR disaster if they had just ran the Stewart team until all the extra Jaguar facilities came on line (wind tunnel etc...). i.e they kept it low key and didn't go around saying silly things like "sea of green" and "year of the cat". Having a more low key driver who had excellent technical ability would have helped too.
The constant changing of management hasn't helped either and IMHO they have ended up with the worse of them all! I like Niki, but I am not sure that team management is his forte (despite him turning Ferrari around in the 70s). What bothers me most at the moment is that every time the introduce a new car and or development it is trumpeted as a great step, but then it hardly makes any difference and there is a lot of back tracking. I am a big Jaguar fan. I even race one! However I feel that F1 is the wrong arena for them. Ford are keen to push the history of Jaguar, but they have missed one of the major facets of Jaguar's history. Le Mans. I believe that Ford as a whole would benefit if it pushed it's own name in F1. I don't support Jaguar in F1 because I don't believe it is the natural place for them to be or even the right place for their current situation. If they had gone in and started winning maybe I would have thought differently, but it was unrealistic for them to do so. However I feel that they do need to win for it to be worthwhile exercise. Having said all that I don't think Jaguar should produce a road car with front wheel drive or have an engine less than about 3 litres (and certainly not a 4 cylinder!). And, God forbid, ever a diesel. Unfortuantly, for me, I don't think that this realistic either. |
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__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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14 Aug 2002, 20:13 (Ref:357906)
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#23 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,953
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And Jaguars look like Rovers. That can't be good, can it?
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__________________
Classic Eddie Irvine moments, #1 Interviewer: "Why has Schumacher got an odd shaped helmet?" Eddie: "Because he's German, he's got an odd shaped head"
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14 Aug 2002, 22:52 (Ref:358012)
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#24 | |||
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14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,639
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Quote:
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__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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14 Aug 2002, 23:02 (Ref:358017)
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#25 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,953
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I hope I didn't offend anyone just now
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__________________
Classic Eddie Irvine moments, #1 Interviewer: "Why has Schumacher got an odd shaped helmet?" Eddie: "Because he's German, he's got an odd shaped head"
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