Brabham BT28-29-30-35-36 - Page 5

Bryan Miller · 22 Nov 2003, 23:15 (Ref:791705)

Time for a recap on the BT30's.

BT30-1, Written off in period.
-2, not recorded since 1970's
-3, U.S.A. 2003
-4, not recorded since 1970's
-5, S.E. Asia 1970's
-6, Australia 2003
-7, not recorded since 1970's
-8, U.S.A. 2003
-9, not recorded since 1970's
-10, U.K. 2003
-11, U.K. 2003
-12, U.K. 2003
-13, not built
-14, poss. U.S.A since circa 1992.
-15,U.K. 2003
-16, U.K. 2003
-17, U.S.A 2003
-18, Argentina ???
-19, Argentina ??? one of the 2 above poss.France.
-20, U.S.A. 2003
-21, Written off in period.
-22, Written off in period
-23, not recorded since 1970's
-24, France 2003
-25, U.K. 2003
-26, U.K. 2003.

That makes 13 def. with one in 1990's in U.S.A =14.

Have I missed anything.
I have 1 more in the U.K. at the moment , but no. ch. no. as yet.

Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 22 Nov 2003, 23:17 (Ref:791706)

Forget the ref. to BT30-18 or -19 . as poss. in France.

David McKinney · 23 Nov 2003, 06:12 (Ref:791892)

Agree with all that
I have a note that Fabio Montani, Italy, was offering BT30/7 for sale in September 1997, and have added “see also BT36” alongside. But I can’t find any cross-reference under my BT36 notes! Grrrrr!
Also last date I have for BT30/26 in UK (or anywhere else) is 2000

Bryan Miller · 23 Nov 2003, 08:16 (Ref:791943)

David.

Thank you very much. I will do the same for BT35 serious type cars soon, i.e. non F3 .
Time for some misc. ramblings, whilst trying to forget the POMS did us in the Rugby. U.S.A correspondents , you wouldn't understand. I must ask who were you barracking for Andrew.????, being an ex. Pom living in OZ.

I have information in front of me that advises a BT35 in the U.K. has BT35-47 , complete with a correct 1972 AM number.
As we already know of BT35-44 in the U.K. , the Mickel car, which was stated to be brand new for the hills in March 1972 , we would at least in the case of BT35 series cars at least , obviously have more cars than either the Lawrence book or my Brabham sheets indicate.
In the case of the 35's , 41 cars off , and we certainly know of -44 , and I have no reason to disbelieve the -47 report , so discounting the usual -13 ch. no. we have what appears to be 46 entities at least in the BT35 series.

I wonder out aloud if we have similar in the case of the 30's and 36's , look what happened to BT30-27 in period.

We have the report , awaiting confirmation of BT36-20 , and a history trail I would hope .

As is usual some of the cars would have in some way or another been ''cloned '' in period.

For instance we have over here a BT23 [ not logbooked and very unlikely to ever be ], which an ex Brabham employee pulled out of the dead frame stack at the works , repaired and built up and returned to Australia with circa 1972.
In this case it all appears so period , because it is , but all it is , is a dead frame plus parts that to my knowledge has never been used since .

That is probably one of many of similar things that happened in period. I suppose I am just listing this sort of thing so as to alert people.

We will also have a few 'ring-ins ' via BT28's updated bodywork wise when the rules changed , the first car I can think of is the Tom Belso car, which in period was called a BT28/35 in the Atlantic series in 1971 , so if the car has lost it's ch.plate , or the subsequent owners didn't know or care , it could become a de-facto BT35 , I am not suggesting it did happen to that car , just a plausible scenario.

BT30's , some more are going to still exist , it is that we don't know where they are at this point in time.

Bryan.

Andrew Fellowes · 23 Nov 2003, 22:16 (Ref:792419)

Johnny Rules! Make him a Sir or a Lord, Lord Sydney sounds good to me.

BT30-5 I looked for in 1986 and gave up when I was told that it had been trashed when in Hong Kong -but this is unconfirmed.

I came across the following puzzle;
“1980 Robert Willis St L Brabham BT36, MidAm Formula Atlantic Champion. “

Ref. http://www.midiv.org/PDF/MidamChamps.pdf
-page 6

I have posted a request for info on an associated MidAm forum, plenty of hits but no reply.

Any suggestions as to which car this might be?

Andrew Fellowes · 24 Nov 2003, 01:00 (Ref:792515)

BT36-5 Owner Abba Kogan, car raced last year in New Zealand with BDA

David McKinney · 24 Nov 2003, 06:18 (Ref:792643)

This seems to fill a gap in my records
I have Kogan in 1999 in a car which had been campaigned since 1993 by John Beasley (and a slew of guest drivers), but whose number I never did discover. This car had been owned by John Harper in 1992.
Last note I have under BT36/5 is it being for sale in Paris in 1990.
It all ties in...

HENDERZSON · 24 Nov 2003, 23:14 (Ref:793398)

Hi Bryan,
Two more BT35's have shown up in US. Dave Erwin has BT35-41 and BT35-44 for sale both as rolling chassis. BT35-44 refered as a hillclimb car. BT35-41 as a FB car.
Regards
Ian

Bryan Miller · 25 Nov 2003, 00:56 (Ref:793445)

Ian.

Thanks for that.
BT35-44 is a hillclimb car ,the ex Agnes and Gray Mickel car from Scotland .
BT35-41 , I had another name against that , also in the US , back in the 90's , so fair chance that one was new to the US as a FB car in period , which is where the majority of BT29's would have gone as new as well.

I think I have heard the name Dave Erwin , is he a dealer.?

Bryan.

dereklola · 25 Nov 2003, 02:04 (Ref:793493)

I think his name is spelled Dave Irwin and he's somewhere in the eastern US - Ohio or Virginia I think.

While I'm on the forum can anyone either help me or direct me within the forum to any discussions on the Ralt RT2 F2 and CanAm cars. I own one and have a brief history of all of them but would like to widen my input? Thx - Derek

Bryan Miller · 25 Nov 2003, 02:47 (Ref:793503)

Derek.

Thanks for that.
Re. Ralt RT2'S , there is a fair bit in the Irish Formula Atlantic Thread, which is on page 2 of the main historic forum , so scroll to bottom rh. corner and hit p2 .

Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 25 Nov 2003, 10:02 (Ref:793761)

All.

I had a look at the final results for the Euro F2 Series, and the following cars and drives are as below.

BT30 , Sepp Mayer , Denmark.
BT36 , Christian Geoffroy , France, BT36-20 ??????????
BT35 , Peter Shaw , U.K.
BT35 , Nick Read , U.K.
BT35 , Duncan Dayton , USA/UK , BT35-7 ??????????????
BT35 , Roy Walzer , ???.

Can anybody assist with identification.?

Bryan.

Chris Townsend · 25 Nov 2003, 10:14 (Ref:793781)

A little update on BT36s from Rondel

Motoring News also reports the sale of the three cars

Schenken to Howlings; Hill's to Hong Kong [hey Autosport could easily get it wrong, they're nearby!]; Wolleck's to Kendall, with the proviso that Richard Scott was going to race it in F2 until his BT38 was delivered.

Howlings is reported by MN as racing the ex Schenken car at Croft Libre race in March, car then goes to Tate of Leeds for Hill until the BT38 arrives.
The Hong Kong car is indeed MacDonalds. Vern Schuppan does a report for MN on the Singapore GP and remarks that MacDonald's car is the ex Hill car. I guess this goes to Japan soon after for Nagamatsu

This more or less means, I think that 36-9 is the Opert car. But can someone tell me what Jose Arauyo's car was in 1974 British Atlantic. The most likely one is 10 in between MacLaren and Overall.

Chris

Jeremy Jackson · 25 Nov 2003, 11:40 (Ref:793848)

Chris,

I was at that Libre race at Croft in March 72, and Howlings did drive BT36-1

HENDERZSON · 25 Nov 2003, 18:22 (Ref:794308)

Hi Bryan and Chris,
Dave Irwin has a business in NE US and prepares historic cars, and deals in cars and parts.
Ref. Euro historic series, I can confirm (from 2000 visit to Sid Hoole) that Duncan Dayton has BT35-7 with/1.6L FI BDA (updated to BT36 specs) prepared by Sid Hoole. Also, BT35-? is with Sid Hoole, owned by Roy Waltzer and is also updated to BT36 specs w/FI 1.6L BDA. Nick Reed has BT35-3 in FA trim from a previous forum posting.
Ian

HENDERZSON · 25 Nov 2003, 18:43 (Ref:794325)

Hi Chris,
I just noted your ref. to Jose Arauyo's BT36 in 74 FA. Do you have a report ref. and any details. I am trying to trace BT36-10 history for that year. Trying to contact Nick Overall to find out who he bought BT36-10 from and when. Also,to find out the Salisbury/Gerrard BT35 chassis number.
Ian

Andrew Fellowes · 25 Nov 2003, 21:22 (Ref:794426)

What year did Opert import the 36 into the States?

Bryan Miller · 25 Nov 2003, 23:37 (Ref:794509)

Chris and Ian.

Chris, thanks for that, which is what I proposed earlier , that the gentleman in Japan , was actually a gentleman in S.E.Asia, back then the level of knowledge of the various countries ''up there '' if you were Australian , or ''down there '' if you were English was hardly as it is today.

That really looks like BT36-9 has to be the suspect to go to Opert, and then as we have still no reports of the car , possibly became Andrews 1980's Can-Am BT36 and Ian Henderson can go and find it and have a matched pair.

BT35-3 , Nick Read , I saw the report earlier re. him and this ch.no. but I wasn't aware in what series it was being used , it could have been the F3 series , I wrongly assumed ,as the car was when new to Bernard Lagier an F3 in period , that is was rebuilt in that form , guess not.

Nobody has a number for the Danish BT30 , ??

Bryan.

Andrew Fellowes · 26 Nov 2003, 00:03 (Ref:794529)

The second Japanese BT36 first appears at Fuji on the 3rd May 1973.
It could easily be 36-2 & I am waiting for information on when & where this car went to after MacDonald. It could also be a number of other cars. It would be nice to eliminate 36-9 by tying a date to it.

I have this ref. for a BT30 in Japan recently.
http://www.tim.hi-ho.ne.jp/tiare/SCCJ.htm
Brabham Bt30 in Green Flag F Class

Andrew Fellowes · 26 Nov 2003, 02:36 (Ref:794616)

The MidAm 1980 trail has proved incorrect it was in fact a BT38. Many thanks to the MidAm guys for digging into their records for me.

I am unable to find any evidence of a BT36 in the states.
so did Fred Opert pass his "ex Rondel BT36" on to Japan?

Jeremy Jackson · 26 Nov 2003, 09:30 (Ref:794804)

Hopping back to BT35s, I have Mike Hawley's car as BT35-35, noted at the 2 Harewood meetings in June & September 1972

Bryan Miller · 26 Nov 2003, 10:45 (Ref:794865)

Jeremy.

Thank you very much.

David McKinney has reported BT35-35 for sale in Gloucestshire in early 1990's , but no previous history .

So that should put another one to bed for a while, although I wonder where it is now.

Bryan.

HENDERZSON · 26 Nov 2003, 17:34 (Ref:795270)

I belive thet BT35-35 was reported with John Harper in 92/93 competing (Ref. reports in Historic racing magazine/David McKinney)in the Euro F2 historic series as either an F2 or FA car.
Other BT35's are still competing in the F2 Euro series, not sure which chassis numbers.
Ian

HENDERZSON · 26 Nov 2003, 18:22 (Ref:795311)

I also found another BT35 on the Brian Wilson brabham owner's website. Trevor Needham has BT35-26 for sale in the UK last year.
Also, another BT35 for sale on same brabham website, but no chassis no.Will try to find out some info.
Ian

flightlessbird · 29 Nov 2003, 21:08 (Ref:798433)

What model is the the Les Wright Buick powered Brabham used i Australian Historic racing?