Dome LMP Discussion

[templer]

Any words if the LMP1 version follows the LMP2 beside the smaller rear wing and the front splitter layout or will the LMP1 feature more the lines of the May 2013 wind tunnel model?

[Mr Pink]

I wonder if the LMP2 chassie can be upgraded to an LMP1? Maybe Strakka wants to test the car out in P2 for a year and then step back up?

[Japanese Samurai]

I'll buy paper edition on this Saturday.
Please wait till then.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by TF110

Anything about the "handle bars"?

The "handle bars" are a rules work around regarding the rear roll over hoop regulations.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

The "handle bars" are a rules work around regarding the rear roll over hoop regulations.

Thats what I expected (a rule observation), as with the extended height. I wonder if any other team will try this.

[Japanese Samurai]

Autosport reports Dome S103 windtunnel model.

*Narrow nose is a result of design priority (Minoru Hayashi design).
*Swan neck stay has an overwhelming aerodynamics performance compared with conventional neck stay.
*Exhaust manifold and radiator are mounted in the safe position, even if tire bursts.
The power-steering unit and the reservoir tank of brake are mounted inside monocoque, not in front of the bulkhead.
These are for improving the survival performance at the time of accident.
*Rear cowl is not single piece in order to reduce cost and to improve service access.
*Early windtunnel model was based on 1900 mm width / 1800 mm rear wing.
Current model is based on 2000 mm width / 1600 mm rear wing.
So, Dome S103 LMP2 has 2014 regulations monocoque and 2000 mm width.
*The monocoque shape is nearly completed. front fender and side pod will be changed.
*Since LMP2 is wider than LMP1, drag increases, but much downforce. Therefore L/D figures does not change so.
*It seems that the aerodynamic performance of S103 has already exceeded S102.5.
*Shakedown test will be carried out on March.

[LavidaLoca]

Here are some pictures from Japanese Autosport (from Dome HomePage)

http://www.dome.co.jp/information/im...0131227_01.jpg

http://www.dome.co.jp/information/im...0131227_02.jpg

[TF110]

Some very noticeable differences with the front fenders and sidepods. Cant wait to see it run.

[silente]

Japanese Samurai,

first of all thanks for the final clarification about this car dimensions. Good to know they switched to 2014 width.

I am also surprised to read that they will probably have more downforce / efficiency than 102.5.

I though that, at least in LeMans, for LMP2 (are we talking about something like 500 hp? or even less?) was much more important to reduce drag.

According to the figures on Mulsannescorner, Dome 102.5 had already a pretty good downforce, also compared to other LMP1.

I doubt any other LMP2 has such an high downforce...We will have to see if this will definitely pay back in terms of efficiency, but it is indeed really interesting and pretty suprising!

[templer]

Thanks Samuri-san for all these interesting details.

I am also suprised that the LMP2 should have more downforce. Okay the floor area is larger due to 2000 mm width and the bodywork area is also larger and the fender have changed to a layout providing more drag but also more downfoce but the rear wing is also 20cm smaller compared to the LMP1 model.
In my opinion the LMP1 model is more radical in its overall layout. Interesting also that the CAD LMP2 image as well as the wind tunnel images hide the area between monocoque and fenders. No valance panels could be seen in any images, Would be interesting how this area will look like in reality. Also not clear why Dome added a seperate valance panel over the front suspension covers.

[carbon_titanium]

I am not surprised that the s103 has already a better aero than s102.5. Afterall the s102.5 was simply something more than a 2008 s102 with a new wing, a fin, new suspensions and some aero update. Lmp2 are wider but I'm skeptic to believe that will generate more downforce than 2014 lmp1.

[tpa8580]

I'm really happy that Dome have found a customer for the car. It would have been a shame if nobody went with the car. I do however hope to see them back in LMP1 with a hybrid car. The only issue being who the engine supplier will be. My money would be on Mazda. Nissan would be great too though I have a feeling they want to stay with the delta wing car design.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by tpa8580

I'm really happy that Dome have found a customer for the car. It would have been a shame if nobody went with the car. I do however hope to see them back in LMP1 with a hybrid car. The only issue being who the engine supplier will be. My money would be on Mazda. Nissan would be great too though I have a feeling they want to stay with the delta wing car design.

What kinda of hybrid solution Mazda have???

[silente]

I am not surprised that the s103 has already a better aero than s102.5. Afterall the s102.5 was simply something more than a 2008 s102 with a new wing, a fin, new suspensions and some aero update. Lmp2 are wider but I'm skeptic to believe that will generate more downforce than 2014 lmp1.

What surprises me is not only that the 2014 LMP2 car has more downforce than 2012 LMP1 but, more in general, that they develop the car to have more downforce than an LMP1 car, although not a succesful one.

Normally you pay downforce with drag...

Moreover, looking at Mulsannescorner Aero Database, Dome 102.5 had already much more downforce than some other LMP2s from the same period:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/aerod...nericLMP2.html

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/aerod...domes102i.html


But also much more drag, although the efficiency was already pretty good...Difficult to think they will have the same downforce or even more, without paying it with drag as well...

[TF110]

They said they improved the aero efficiency. That means lower drag vs downforce.

[silente]

*Narrow nose is a result of design priority (Minoru Hayashi design).
*Swan neck stay has an overwhelming aerodynamics performance compared with conventional neck stay.
*Exhaust manifold and radiator are mounted in the safe position, even if tire bursts.
The power-steering unit and the reservoir tank of brake are mounted inside monocoque, not in front of the bulkhead.
These are for improving the survival performance at the time of accident.
*Rear cowl is not single piece in order to reduce cost and to improve service access.
*Early windtunnel model was based on 1900 mm width / 1800 mm rear wing.
Current model is based on 2000 mm width / 1600 mm rear wing.
So, Dome S103 LMP2 has 2014 regulations monocoque and 2000 mm width.
*The monocoque shape is nearly completed. front fender and side pod will be changed.
*Since LMP2 is wider than LMP1, drag increases, but much downforce. Therefore L/D figures does not change so.
*It seems that the aerodynamic performance of S103 has already exceeded S102.5.
*Shakedown test will be carried out on March.

He said efficiency doesn't change much, but both downforce and drag will be higher than the initial LMP1 Design.

Then he says that Aero performance are already better than S102.5. No mention they improved efficiency through

lower drag vs downforce

[TF110]

"L/D does not change". Drag is caused by the wider car in lmp2, yes. Aero areas were improved over the S102.5 is my point.

[templer]

Originally Posted by silente

He said efficiency doesn't change much, but both downforce and drag will be higher than the initial LMP1 Design.

Then he says that Aero performance are already better than S102.5. No mention they improved efficiency through

If they talk of aero performance they mean nearly in every way the L/D figure as the number for aero efficiency. I think that Dome mentioned in an interview at I think dailysportscar that already the early LMP1 wind tunnel model provided better results compared to the S102.5
We should not forget that Dome never stopped the development of the S102 and I know it from my work on a book project that the pics of wind tunnel testing we get are only a very small part of the whole development period and the most interesting test series will never see the public light.
So I think the S103 is a further development on the base Dome got with their S102 test series.

[carbon_titanium]

My interpretation is this: in 2013, aero development softwares, technical knowledge and structures are more advanced than 2008. This is the main reason why S103 has a better aero than S102.5, that is nothing more than a 2011-2013 regs updated S102. A car developed in 2008.
If a 2013 oreca 03 could be powered by the judd 5.5 V10, surely will be faster than the old 2010 oreca 01.

[silente]

yes, clear.

I am only saying that the difference in downforce between what we could believe being Dome figures right now and a "normal" LMP2 seems very very big...

Maybe too big?

[Japanese Samurai]

Minoru Hayashi revealed that there was a plan for Dome to tie up with an automaker (Toyota?) and participate in LM24.
He says that this plan fell through by world economy recession (Lehman shock?).
He says that Dome had contracted with the automaker.
http://hayashiminoru.com/

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Minoru Hayashi revealed that there was a plan for Dome to tie up with an automaker (Toyota?) and participate in LM24.
He says that this plan fell through by world economy recession (Lehman shock?).
He says that Dome had contracted with the automaker.
http://hayashiminoru.com/

Mazda?
Mazda was hit pretty hard by the economy crunch, and scaled down their Motorsport investments, unlike Toyota who continued their investment.

[Japanese Samurai]

It must be Toyota.
It is an open secret that Toyota was doing the engine test using S101.5.

[Koenigsegg]

I'm also guessing Toyota. Remember that they also stopped the LFA GTE program.

[gustavobamba]

Japanese Samurai, did Mazda better in finances???

They could in a near future with SkyActive and Dome back to LMP1???