[Tech Issue] The Sound Of The V6 Turbo PU..

[Greem]

Ooh, smoke & mirrors...

"Tell 'em we'll take off a silencer and see how they react"
*no mechanical changes*
"See? Everyone says they're louder!"

Now that would be genuinely funny.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Well there you go. They (FIA, FOM, the manufacturers, and the teams) have all agreed to remove one muffler and the engines could be a little louder by the Canadian GP.

Looks like the whinges won this one.

Mufflers and turbos? Wouldn't a muffler have an effect on the speed of the exhaust leaving the tail pipe and therefore the speed the turbo operates at?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Given that the racing was so entertaining, I forgot to worry about or pay attention to the sound of the engines

Richard

Exactly. I still quite like 'em, mufflers or no mufflers.

[JeremySmith]

They could just say "We tried and it did not work"

[wolfhound]

I have found a link in Autosport about making F1 cars louder and Bernie hopes these new high volume exhausts can be tested after the Spanish Gp!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113317

[Adam43]

Thanks for the link.

As I feared, it'll be nothing to do with performance it'll be for the superficial dimbos, or even worse, teenagers with Saxos.

Open up the exhausts so there is a potential power gain and engineering challenge and you have me onside.

[Richard C]

Maybe the new exhaust is supposed to look like this...



It should be quite a cacophony during the race.

Richard

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Maybe the new exhaust is supposed to look like this...



It should be quite a cacophony during the race.

Richard

How long will it take Newey to get more down force from it?

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I have found a link in Autosport about making F1 cars louder and Bernie hopes these new high volume exhausts can be tested after the Spanish Gp!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113317

Genuinely saddening stuff. Just leave it be. Everything is going pretty well.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

How long will it take Newey to get more down force from it?

I suppose it depends on how hard he can blow and his embouchure.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I did a quick search to find details, but can find any mention of this. Can someone point me to something that gives details? I am not exactly sure how they plan to do this?

It is a sad state that when they take action to "protect F1", that it comes as an agreement to artificially create engine noise, but they can't seem to be able to agree on a budget cap.

Richard

I am waiting for an official statement too Richard. They may agreement as they do on other 'non essential' matters but I still want to see an official communication if that is the state of the park.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Well it's no different to last year, I don't see what wnut keeps saying. My wnut's measure it has always been rubbish.

I feel I am being unfairly maligned here, the sound of the engines in fairness, is not one of my big concerns!

Posted above that I had expected it to worry me, but it doesn't! (Post #203)

Engine noise traded off against cars that move around more under less aero on more durable tyres! I will be happy every time!

Racing is what F1 should be about!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Greem

Ooh, smoke & mirrors...

"Tell 'em we'll take off a silencer and see how they react"
*no mechanical changes*
"See? Everyone says they're louder!"

Now that would be genuinely funny.

It would!

[321Go]

Originally Posted by JamesH

I wasn't aware they even had mufflers. Isn't that why the V8 were so unpleasantly loud?

Sorry, was a lame attempt at humour.
Removing a muffler is the usual boy racer trick to make the exhaust louder.

[bjohnsonsmith]

'No easy fix' for engine noise says Bernie.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113348

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by wnut

I feel I am being unfairly maligned here, the sound of the engines in fairness, is not one of my big concerns!

Posted above that I had expected it to worry me, but it doesn't! (Post #203)

Engine noise traded off against cars that move around more under less aero on more durable tyres! I will be happy every time!

Racing is what F1 should be about!

You said the new technology ruined the racing, but we just had a very good race, and the change in who has dominant because of who got the new technology right and who didn't has also made things more interesting.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Agreed.

F1 is finally pushing some new technology. Sadly, it seems that for most fans, technological advancement doesn't count for much anymore.

The point I was trying to make was that the new technology did nothing to promote racing, it is merely a compulsory deviation into a KERS system and a battery storage system (green?!!), both of which would have no place on the grid but for legislation.

The cars have gone from 450 kg to 500 kg to accommodate the increase to 3 litre capacity to 690 kg including a 60 kg(?) driver so 630 kg?

Last time I heard mass was pretty important in the force and energy required to accelerate an object!

Lugging all the extra junk around (180 kg) cannot be either green or economical, or what the motor industry should be aiming at, and it certainly doesn't make for better racing!

Anyway we're stuck with what we've got, and it is way way better than it was in 2010!
Small mercies!

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by wnut

The point I was trying to make was that the new technology did nothing to promote racing, it is merely a compulsory deviation into a KERS system and a battery storage system (green?!!), both of which would have no place on the grid but for legislation.

The cars have gone from 450 kg to 500 kg to accommodate the increase to 3 litre capacity to 690 kg including a 60 kg(?) driver so 630 kg?

Last time I heard mass was pretty important in the force and energy required to accelerate an object!

Lugging all the extra junk around (180 kg) cannot be either green or economical, or what the motor industry should be aiming at, and it certainly doesn't make for better racing!
Anyway we're stuck with what we've got, and it is way way better than it was in 2010!
Small mercies!

Hope fully those in volved in F1 will find ways to reduce the weight of all the electric stuff by changing materials etc. or maybe come up with a new or different electrical storage system that is lighter and more efficent. After all making things lighter has always been in F1's DNA.

[321Go]

At the end of the day, the fact is, if F1 did not adopt the V6 turbo, F1 would probably be closer to a one make series today.

Fact, Renault said it will pull out of F1 if the V6 turbo wasn't introduced. Fact, Mercedes would not be in F1, as either a manufacturer or an PU supplier if the V6 turbo wasn't introduced. Fact, Honda would not be coming to F1 if the V6 turbo wasn't introduced.

Cosworth still has ambitions of re-entering the formula with a V6 turbo. Toyota and BMW couldn't see the benefit of continuing in F1 with NA technology. Both wanted a change. But the change came too late for them.

The only manufacturer that was not keen on the V6 turbo was Ferrari. They weren't happy, and are still not happy. So if Ferrari was the only engine supply choice, how many of the other teams would still be in F1? How exciting would F1 be with four or maybe five teams all running Ferrari PU's? Fact is, if the V6 turbo wasn't introduced, that could well have been F1 2014.

[Sodemo]

I don't get this "road relevance" angle. I mean, we had V10's V8's and V12's throughout the 90s and 2000s, when were they ever "road relevant"?

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I don't get this "road relevance" angle. I mean, we had V10's V8's and V12's throughout the 90s and 2000s, when were they ever "road relevant"?

I may be way off here, but it may be that because the FIA and others (manufacturer teams) have seen hybrid and "green" technology elsewhere in top motorsport and which has some relevance to road cars (eventually), it was time that F1 made an effort. Obviously F1 isn't "green" overall but it does seem that the new power units will make an immense difference to world fuel consumption if the technology was adopted in road cars. I admit, I don't know how green it is to make billions of batteries and other related technical stuff.
Apart from some not liking the lack of noise, or rather, the lack of what is considered powerful-racing-car noise, I find it hard to fault the change to these power units.
I'm not so sure though that it is just these power units that have created a better spectacle (apart from the massive torque). The better racing and difficult cars may be more to do with the lower downforce and sensible tyres, but, yes, with that torque helping the show.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I don't get this "road relevance" angle. I mean, we had V10's V8's and V12's throughout the 90s and 2000s, when were they ever "road relevant"?

2014 version of, "win on Sunday sell on Monday"?

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by wnut

Lugging all the extra junk around (180 kg) cannot be either green or economical, or what the motor industry should be aiming at, and it certainly doesn't make for better racing!

Actually, it clearly is economical. Hence lap times within .5s of previous years on 30% less fuel. I wish I could drive to work using 30% less fuel.

It also gives massively torquey engines, which are always more exciting, and may well provide better racing.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I don't get this "road relevance" angle. I mean, we had V10's V8's and V12's throughout the 90s and 2000s, when were they ever "road relevant"?

One could argue that Formula 1 engines were (somewhat) relevant in the eighties.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by wnut

The point I was trying to make was that the new technology did nothing to promote racing, it is merely a compulsory deviation into a KERS system and a battery storage system (green?!!), both of which would have no place on the grid but for legislation.

The cars have gone from 450 kg to 500 kg to accommodate the increase to 3 litre capacity to 690 kg including a 60 kg(?) driver so 630 kg?

Last time I heard mass was pretty important in the force and energy required to accelerate an object!

Lugging all the extra junk around (180 kg) cannot be either green or economical, or what the motor industry should be aiming at, and it certainly doesn't make for better racing!

Anyway we're stuck with what we've got, and it is way way better than it was in 2010!
Small mercies!

But all the while, they are going about the same speed using 30% less energy! Sure they added weight, but the added weight stuff made a big improvement in efficiency.

I agree things should be more open, but the hybrid angle is really the primary reason the cars are 30% more efficient in one year.