WMSC hearing - McLaren fined $100 million/excluded from WCC (MERGED) - Page 12

broadrun96 · 13 Sep 2007, 18:27 (Ref:2011608)

and "No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win in any of the remaining races of the 2007 season." meaning the 1 driver podium is a distinct possibility at every round remaining? That's the dumbest thing that could happen and if McLaren wins races what would happen, play no music and raise no flags as well and award no trophies, might as well cancel the ceremony all together rather than waste everybody's time.

mjstallard · 13 Sep 2007, 18:28 (Ref:2011610)

Betfair have opened a market on "Alonso first race?" with a list of Formula One constructors

rdjones · 13 Sep 2007, 18:28 (Ref:2011611)

From that Article:

Quote:

"The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season."

Ok if that's the case, then they should look at every other car as well, at the end of the day people move from team to team.

I went to school with a guy who currently work's for Renault but he used to work for BAR and TWR, who's to say that when he moved to Renault a couple of years back he didn't take some of there idea's with him.

Hazard · 13 Sep 2007, 18:28 (Ref:2011612)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjstallard

Having texted the news to a few of my more casual F1 following friends, the general consensus is "F1 is dead to me now".

It'll be interesting (in one sense of the word) to see how this pans out in the long term for Formula One.

To the even more casual fan, they'd say what's the fuss? Hamilton or Alonso are still going to win the championship - that's all joe punter cares about. That's been very well protected in this punishment.

JamesRamone · 13 Sep 2007, 18:29 (Ref:2011613)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjstallard

Having texted the news to a few of my more casual F1 following friends, the general consensus is "F1 is dead to me now".

It'll be interesting (in one sense of the word) to see how this pans out in the long term for Formula One.

I think casual fans are less affected by this. As they still get the drivers title fight, which is generally all the public and newspapers follow.

Knowlesy · 13 Sep 2007, 18:29 (Ref:2011615)

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadrun96

and "No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win in any of the remaining races of the 2007 season." meaning the 1 driver podium is a distinct possibility at every round remaining? That's the dumbest thing that could happen and if McLaren wins races what would happen, play no music and raise no flags as well and award no trophies, might as well cancel the ceremony all together rather than waste everybody's time.

It just means the constructor representative I think. It happened at the Hungarian GP.

Dutton · 13 Sep 2007, 18:30 (Ref:2011616)

I think they must mean no-one to go to pick up a winning constructor's trophy.

To include drivers as a "team representative" would be insanity.

Hazard · 13 Sep 2007, 18:30 (Ref:2011617)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdjones

From that Article:

Ok if that's the case, then they should look at every other car as well, at the end of the day people move from team to team.

I went to school with a guy who currently work's for Renault but he used to work for BAR and TWR, who's to say that when he moved to Renault a couple of years back he didn't take some of there idea's with him.

If I quit where I worked and went to a rival company - I can take all I know with me, it's down the my company to have made it as hard as possible for me to know or have everything available.

If I was giving that company loads of data whilst I was still working where I am, that's a very different scenario!

**Peter Mallett** · 13 Sep 2007, 18:32 (Ref:2011619)

What a way to improve publicity. Fans excepted I'm sure there'll be more people buying the mags and watching the races from now.

There is something odd about all of this so we really need to see why this has happened. And the ladies in red are happy?

Hmm.

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 13 Sep 2007, 18:32 (Ref:2011620)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutton

No Mclaren representative will be allowed on the podium if a Mclaren driver wins in any remaining races. I take it, then, that a driver is not classified as a "team representative"?

I take that to mean the, there would be no presentation of the constructors award should a McLaren driver win the race. Rather than the driver wouldn't be allowed on the podium

Knowlesy · 13 Sep 2007, 18:32 (Ref:2011621)

Teams are aware people can take information with them through their memory. This is why gardening leave exists, in the hope that some information is forgotten.

It's all folly of course because that person is likely to still have some of their work and documents anyways. And you don't just entirely forget everything you've done.

phoenix · 13 Sep 2007, 18:33 (Ref:2011623)

Ferrari said they are satisfied with the FIA's decision to strip McLaren-Mercedes of all their points in the 2007 constructors' championship and fine them $100 million as a result of the spying controversy.

The Maranello squad, who this weekend look certain to be crowned constructors champions following McLaren's points loss, said facts of "extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial" to F1 were demonstrated at the Paris hearing on Thursday.

"Ferrari acknowledges the decision of the FIA to sanction Vodafone McLaren Mercedes for its breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code," said the Italian team in a statement.

"In light of new evidence, facts and behaviour of an extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial to the interest of the sport have been further demonstrated.

"Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged."

Ferrari are now 57 points ahead of second-placed BMW-Sauber in the standings, with a total of 64 left to play for.

Dutton · 13 Sep 2007, 18:33 (Ref:2011624)

Well, schead, I have to say you have expressed your thoughts in a thoroughly unnecessary way.

Your opinions are clear enough, but I find the manner if which you have expressed them quite pointless.

Knowlesy · 13 Sep 2007, 18:34 (Ref:2011625)

The Ferrari statement is amusing in its sheer hypocricy.

Hazard · 13 Sep 2007, 18:35 (Ref:2011626)

Btw, Ferrari haven't 'officially' won the constructors championship yet, as BMW are still theoretically in the running - though as they'll need almost every 1-2 with no Ferrari's scoring, I think we can say it's practically Ferrari's.

Slightly pointless, but at least a championship hasn't just been decided in a court room.

mjstallard · 13 Sep 2007, 18:36 (Ref:2011629)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix

Ferrari are now 57 points ahead of second-placed BMW-Sauber in the standings, with a total of 64 left to play for.

McLaren should take the Ferrari cars out at each of the remaining races. Go BMW!!!

Dutton · 13 Sep 2007, 18:36 (Ref:2011630)

I am still unclear as to whether Mclaren have actually been officially excluded, or simply unable to score points?

If it is the latter, well, that is just weird: although, if they are still technically in the championship, then it means they would be eligible for the benefits of being in the top-10 of the WCC (provided Spyker and STR don't both score points).

mjstallard · 13 Sep 2007, 18:37 (Ref:2011631)

Yup - able to race, just unable to score any constructor points at all this year.

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 13 Sep 2007, 18:37 (Ref:2011632)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutton

I am still unclear as to whether Mclaren have actually been officially excluded, or simply unable to score points?

If it is the latter, well, that is just weird.

Stripped of points gained so far and banned from gaining more

Hazard · 13 Sep 2007, 18:37 (Ref:2011633)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Teams are aware people can take information with them through their memory. This is why gardening leave exists, in the hope that some information is forgotten.

It's all folly of course because that person is likely to still have some of their work and documents anyways. And you don't just entirely forget everything you've done.

Just waiting for the contractually bound amnesia pill when you hand in your notice!

Gardening leave's usually more about leaving you out of your company so you're not up to speed with the current goings on.

Clearly Coughlan didn't like gardening.

Fish_Flake · 13 Sep 2007, 18:38 (Ref:2011634)

The FIA's sentence is remarkably draconian considering the fact that most of the teams on the grid are likely guilty of the same offenses. McLaren need to appeal to a real court on this one. It's an absolute joke.

Sev · 13 Sep 2007, 18:40 (Ref:2011635)

This is stupid on so many levels.

Firstly, this whole spy case happened too late in the year for McLaren to incorporate the new things into their car; they were running well back in tests in February. It's known to be hard to change cars much after that, besides tuning the aero.

Secondly, I have to say, this seems far to much like the Max trying to get one back at Dennis. As much as I want this to be over, I hope McLaren wins their appeal. Frankly, I think this has damaged them enough already. And considering I was supporting Raikkonen to win the championship this year...

Bah. If there was another championship anywhere near to rivalling F1 I'd renounce it forever. What a load of crap.

Dutton · 13 Sep 2007, 18:40 (Ref:2011637)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Stripped of points gained so far and banned from gaining more

Which means you'd think they may as well just exlcude them!

I guess the FIA wants to give them the chance to keep the benefits of being in the top-10 of the WCC.

ralf fan · 13 Sep 2007, 18:40 (Ref:2011638)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Slightly pointless, but at least a championship hasn't just been decided in a court room.

Now that is optimism.

I think this is best we could have hoped for really. The Fia were not going to get a second hearing organized and then let Mclaren completely of the hook, constuctor points were always going to be taken i felt. The drivers championship is still on, but sadly 2007 will be remembered for this regardless of who wins the championship or what happens in the next 4 races.'

I will wait for a release of the evidence against Mclaren. If it is damning in that they blatantly used Ferrari information then no one can really complain. It happens often, but Mclaren's only offense is getting caught.

phoenix · 13 Sep 2007, 18:41 (Ref:2011639)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjstallard

McLaren should take the Ferrari cars out at each of the remaining races. Go BMW!!!

Yeah - imagine if they did!

Alonso wins, Hamilton is second in the drivers championship and BMW-Sauber win the constructors championship!

Just the result Maranello and Max were looking for!

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