ALMS 2012 Discussion

[joeb]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

I should also mention that the car is basically a Grand-Am Audi R8 LMS with a slightly different air-restrictor. Also, no teams have made an offer to buy the car yet, but Audi expects some customers to line up in the next couple of months.

This is an interesting point. The GA GT class has been quite a bit slower than the ALMS GT's, so is a restrictor break going to be enough to get the car on par with the other ALMS GT's?

[The Badger]

Fuji & Bahrain dates have been moved so they dont clash with PLM anymore .

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...sc-071211.aspx

[Purist]

Maybe a crazy question, but would the Sept/Oct TBD for ALMS possibly be a double with AMA SBK at NOLA Motorsports Park? I suppose they could put it a few weeks beforehand if they run there, but having two big weekends close together like that, especially for a new facility, might be a bit of a stretch. Even established venues try to space out their major events somewhat.

[Fogelhund]

The tbd is Austin. At least now there is a chance it might happen, depending on construction delays etc.

[Fogelhund]

Murphy tweets that the ALMS is talking with VIR about a date... not sure if that is for 2013, or as a replacement to Baltimore if it fails, or this tbd (Austin) if it fails.

[Coach Ep]

Oklahoma City is in for 2013, is it possible it could join the schedule in 2012 already?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by joeb

This is an interesting point. The GA GT class has been quite a bit slower than the ALMS GT's, so is a restrictor break going to be enough to get the car on par with the other ALMS GT's?

I'm not sure how much time this will gain, but I would guess that an ALMS car will (or at least could) run on much better tires than what Grand-Am provides.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Fuji & Bahrain dates have been moved so they dont clash with PLM anymore .

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...sc-071211.aspx

This is funny ..... all the cribbing and whining about PLM with clashing dates with Bahrain , and not one post since I posted about the date change ..... ya think some folk would be happy !!!

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by The Badger

This is funny ..... all the cribbing and whining about PLM with clashing dates with Bahrain , and not one post since I posted about the date change ..... ya think some folk would be happy !!!

To be honest mate, I think it was the exclusion of PLM from the WEC that hurt most. The inclusion of Bahrain, and on the same date, just dug the knife in a bit deeper. I don't think the adjustment to the calendar has fundamentally changed anything, PLM is still not part of the WEC.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by The Badger

This is funny ..... all the cribbing and whining about PLM with clashing dates with Bahrain , and not one post since I posted about the date change ..... ya think some folk would be happy !!!

No one has mentioned it because it was flagged up on the forum in the WEC thread 2.5 hours earlier and is being discussed in there.

[FstrthnU]

IMO, LMP1 still seems rather small. I know that LMP2 is also potentially going to be bigger (way bigger?) than LMP1 in the WEC, but I wonder if there's anyone looking into ALMS LMP1 2013 onwards. Maybe the Detroit and Oklahoma City (and apparently tentative VIR) races will encourage at least 1 more team to join?

Unless LMPs in general tank in the near future

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

To be honest mate, I think it was the exclusion of PLM from the WEC that hurt most. The inclusion of Bahrain, and on the same date, just dug the knife in a bit deeper. I don't think the adjustment to the calendar has fundamentally changed anything, PLM is still not part of the WEC.

I will have to disagree with that. It's been known for quite some time that Petit was not the primary target for the 2nd American date. In fact, it wasn't the primary target for 2011 either. South America could not get signed in time or whatever so Petit snook in the 2011 calendar, but it seemed almost assured that things would get finalized in South America for 2012. Maybe there was some optimism, but it wasn't realistic optimism.

Still, the initial 2012 WEC calendar announcement was a bombshell. Alone, Petit not being on there would not be a surprise at all. Tough scheduling around the Petit date would not have been a surprise either. Not to me at least, I was calling that prior to the announcement. The bombshell was A) Bahrain getting on the calendar in the first place (it was rumored a few months back, but that seemed to be dismissed and the common thought was that Malaysia would be the extra race) and B) that Bahrain was on Petit's date. That was nuclear right there. "You're going to race on the same day as Petit? AT BAHRAIN??!?!" was the thought. As a racing fan, I expect stupid to happen, but that level of stupidity was shocking! I don't know what caused the change, but it did happen. There's still a lot of issues and concerns, but the most pressing matter seemingly has been taken care of.

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

IMO, LMP1 still seems rather small. I know that LMP2 is also potentially going to be bigger (way bigger?) than LMP1 in the WEC, but I wonder if there's anyone looking into ALMS LMP1 2013 onwards. Maybe the Detroit and Oklahoma City (and apparently tentative VIR) races will encourage at least 1 more team to join?

Unless LMPs in general tank in the near future

I think it's way to early to determine what might happen in 2013. It's year-by-year or even race-by-race with what we have now so looking 12+ months into the future is very difficult. I would not expect miracles though. Detroit and Oklahoma City are not races that are going to make owners say "damn, I'm in" and it's hardly a guarantee that the ALMS will be at either even if paperwork says otherwise. Just look at Baltimore.

[gregtummer]

If Bahrain is going to be canceled, ALMS should be proactive and move PLM up 3 weeks to the Bahrain date (once they figure out there is no realistic way to race there).

That way it would be:

Interlagos

(2 weeks later) Petit Le Mans

(2 weeks later)

Fuji.

The teams could do Brazil and Petit in one stop and then fly over to Fuji.

It makes too much sense to me.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

If Bahrain is going to be canceled, ALMS should be proactive and move PLM up 3 weeks to the Bahrain date (once they figure out there is no realistic way to race there).

I don't think Bahrain will get canceled. That's not to say that should not be canceled, I just don't think it will happen even if the F1 race gets canceled. I think the FIA wants to prove that an international event can take place at Bahrain without incident so that the money pipeline from Bahrain will continue to flow in the future. Of course, whether a race can take place without incident isn't the point behind dismissing Bahrain, but that's a whole different matter that isn't relevant to the ALMS. I guess there's always the hope that Audi, Peugeot, or someone like that will raise a giant stink about Bahrain, but who knows if that will happen. If it does happen, it may not come off the calendar until a point where it's too late for the ALMS to make a change. It's certainly not going to get removed without a fight.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by The Badger

This is funny ..... all the cribbing and whining about PLM with clashing dates with Bahrain , and not one post since I posted about the date change ..... ya think some folk would be happy !!!

The only thing that has really changed, is that the drivers will now be able to compete in both races if necessary, which is a very good thing. In most years, the top teams are in full test mode at Road Atlanta BEFORE the Fuji race even happens. Do you really think that the FIA/WEC made this change for the benefit of the ALMS? They still don't really give a hoot, are still acting in their own self interest, though they've made concessions to the drivers. The probability any teams compete in both Fuji and PLM are about nil, so practically speaking nothings changed. They would have needed another weeks separation in the schedule.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The only thing that has really changed, is that the drivers will now be able to compete in both races if necessary, which is a very good thing. In most years, the top teams are in full test mode at Road Atlanta BEFORE the Fuji race even happens. Do you really think that the FIA/WEC made this change for the benefit of the ALMS? They still don't really give a hoot, are still acting in their own self interest, though they've made concessions to the drivers. The probability any teams compete in both Fuji and PLM are about nil, so practically speaking nothings changed. They would have needed another weeks separation in the schedule.

I agree and furthermore by moving the Fuji event so close they have effectively excluded the one works team that could have gone to PLM instead of WEC - Toyota

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Mal

I agree and furthermore by moving the Fuji event so close they have effectively excluded the one works team that could have gone to PLM instead of WEC - Toyota

Pssst. Look who owns Fuji Speedway. They're not going to skip that race.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

IMO, LMP1 still seems rather small. I know that LMP2 is also potentially going to be bigger (way bigger?) than LMP1 in the WEC, but I wonder if there's anyone looking into ALMS LMP1 2013 onwards. Maybe the Detroit and Oklahoma City (and apparently tentative VIR) races will encourage at least 1 more team to join?

Unless LMPs in general tank in the near future

Someone needs to sit down with Picket and Dyson to ask why they are willing to invest big bucks in new P1's, they had an opportnity to move class, or even series, so what's the appeal?

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The probability any teams compete in both Fuji and PLM are about nil, so practically speaking nothings changed. They would have needed another weeks separation in the schedule.

Could PLM not move back one week?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

To be honest mate, I think it was the exclusion of PLM from the WEC that hurt most. The inclusion of Bahrain, and on the same date, just dug the knife in a bit deeper. I don't think the adjustment to the calendar has fundamentally changed anything, PLM is still not part of the WEC.

As much as I like PLM , I feel that Sebring has way more heritage and is more deserving of a round than Road Atlanta . I see your point about ALMS fans feeling hurt , cuz of PLM exclusion . However , why would the USA deserve 2 races ? The only other country to host 2 races is France , Paul Ricard and Le Mans of course . I agree that its a shame something coundnt be worked out but , let the ALMS make their own big show , if they can , and stop relying on European teams to bolster their grids . We dont complain when ALMS teams dont bolster our grids , do we ? But it would be nice to see some ALMS teams do the odd race in ELMS (LMS) .

I dont think that the USA deserves 2 races ..... as their manufacturers dont contribute very much in the way of entries . 2 Corvettes to be precise !!! Its also not a marketing interest for peugeot , and the manufacturers are listened to in part by the ACO & FIA .

There could well have been a proto effort from Corvette , but they chose the DP route instead .

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Simmi

No one has mentioned it because it was flagged up on the forum in the WEC thread 2.5 hours earlier and is being discussed in there.

Well , as PLM isnt a part of the WEC , and the topic is about a track in Georgia which happens to be in the United States of America and is an ALMS league , it should really be in the ALMS thread ..... or am I off topic as people are so often reminded ?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

If Bahrain is going to be canceled, ALMS should be proactive and move PLM up 3 weeks to the Bahrain date (once they figure out there is no realistic way to race there).

That way it would be:

Interlagos

(2 weeks later) Petit Le Mans

(2 weeks later)

Fuji.

The teams could do Brazil and Petit in one stop and then fly over to Fuji.

It makes too much sense to me.

Top marks for that comment ..... great idea

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Well , as PLM isnt a part of the WEC , and the topic is about a track in Georgia which happens to be in the United States of America and is an ALMS league , it should really be in the ALMS thread ..... or am I off topic as people are so often reminded ?

Well the announcement was about the moving of the Bahrain date so...

But in all seriousness there's like 40 pages of upset in the WEC thread regarding PLM so in it went.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Pssst. Look who owns Fuji Speedway. They're not going to skip that race.

Pssst That is exactly what I was saying

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

Could PLM not move back one week?

I don't know. I don't know if Road Atlanta is booked for that date, and whether that can be changed. It certainly would be one of the options I would look at, if I was running things. Having said that, I would ultimately make the recommendation to go with September 8th. Ok, so it conflicts with ELMS at Brno, but I can't imagine there will be too much conflict between teams/drivers.

The reason you change it to the 8th, is the weather will be better than late October (27th), and it is the week before Sao Paolo. The cars and teams will be headed to the Americas already, and you offer to pay for travel etc, to encourage participation.

I don't think we can hope that the Bahrain date won't happen, make plans as if it will.

Hey, what do I know though.

[Purist]

PLM was already moved three weeks because of the anticipated date of Fuji being right on top of when PLM was going to be. And it wouldn't surprise me now if it's too much of a headache to deal with changing it again on the locals (the people and jurisdictions most immediately around the track) to be worth changing it yet again.

Detroit is much more likely to happen than other potential events mentioned, given its location for the motor industry, who's backing it, and the fact that it's coming back anyway in 2012.

It works better for European teams to come here than it does for American teams to go over there. The simple fact is that if you have a European sponsor (as opposed to a French, German, or English sponsor), that company is already international. Plenty of American sponsors only exist in the States, so they're not going to support their team going someplace that isn't a market and holds no interests for them.

I've also already mentioned that there are VASTLY more European nameplates still in existence with racing pedigree than is the case for the States. And of course, Europe doesn't have to deal with a NASCAR equivalent, which NASCAR itself has the "Big Three" American nameplates already, obviously.

As for Pickett and Dyson, I have a few thoughts. Both teams would want a manufacturer hook-up, and I'm guessing all of those slots in DP were spoken for. Also, Mazda isn't in DP, for Dyson. There is the matter of teams in DP already having loads of experience with the existing chasses as well, which puts Dyson and Pickett on the back foot to some degree. Also, these guys want to be in "the top class", which is LMP1; it's just that simple. The second LMP category is no longer competitive overall, and they struggle to go by GT2s on the straights. Therefore, you have to be in LMP1 for 2012, at the very least, because of Sebring.

EDIT: I wouldn't put Petit one week after Baltimore. Yes, I know there are concerns with that event, then again, if it was going to implode, I would have expected that to happen already by now. Instead of the stories of its demise steamrolling though, it's gone quiet, which makes me think something is happening behind the scenes. If things are happening, that's a good sign for the event.