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13 Jun 2004, 15:17 (Ref:1002644)
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#1 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 102
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What happened to Rollcentre?
When I went to sleep, they were still running 4th, but this morning they were out. Mechanical failure, or a shunt?
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13 Jun 2004, 15:21 (Ref:1002650)
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#2 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 341
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Sebastian Bourdais punted them off track in a stupid move. It looked like everything was OK and they got pulled out of the gravel and continued. Unfortunatly about 5 laps later, it looked like the rear suspension broke where the contact occured, and Martin Short simply clobbered a concrete wall at a very high rate of speed.
That was it, they were done. Silly move in a 24 hour race, they were doing well. |
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__________________
Cleveland (Lakewood), Ohio
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13 Jun 2004, 15:47 (Ref:1002665)
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#3 | |
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,739
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They were doing very well. The Rollcentre was one of the surprises in the race.
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13 Jun 2004, 16:05 (Ref:1002674)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,137
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Rollcentre's pace surprised me.
They did well in Sebring, but Le Mans is a different game. What a pity they didn't finish. I hope they can repair the car in time for the next ELMS race. |
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13 Jun 2004, 18:08 (Ref:1002722)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Was there ever any sanction on Bourdais? That was clearly dangerous driving.
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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13 Jun 2004, 18:10 (Ref:1002723)
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#6 | ||
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,739
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Quote:
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13 Jun 2004, 18:33 (Ref:1002754)
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#7 | ||
 Weasel WranglerVeteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,885
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Glad to hear Martin Short was ok - shaken, and limping a little apparently, but ok.
The tv coverage didn't really show it well, but Bourdais' move looked silly rather than outright dangerous... obvious (with hindsight) that the Dallara's suspension was damaged in that incident... the tv cameras did pick up Short's big off - and it was BIG!  A great showing for Rollcentre though - and a real shame they didn't finish. |
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__________________
"Never pick a fight with an ugly person, they've got nothing to lose."
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13 Jun 2004, 19:18 (Ref:1002803)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,241
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yeah, that Dallara really took a big hit to the front and then richocheted along the wall taking the whole back end off. Unfortunate that it happened on the exit of a bend so he spun into the inside wall where theres no run-off.
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13 Jun 2004, 20:56 (Ref:1002903)
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#9 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 39
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Quote:
I would think that would at least qualify for a stop and go. Same for Davies incedents. |
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13 Jun 2004, 21:09 (Ref:1002923)
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#10 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
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I'd say whoever watched it on TV had quite a good view of it. Bourdais claimed Short closed the door, but Short was just on the racing line and Boudrais definitely was braking quite late. Bourdais was no where near being clear of Short to overtake. IMO he just wasn't in position.
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__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
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13 Jun 2004, 21:38 (Ref:1002945)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,241
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It seemed Bordais just tapped Short. I wouldn't even call it a proper move. More bad judgement on Bordais' part than just an outrageously dumb move.
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14 Jun 2004, 01:09 (Ref:1003036)
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#12 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 102
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Thanks. Bummer for Rollcentre, I was really hoping Martin, Joao, and Robb could pull off a good finish.
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14 Jun 2004, 02:08 (Ref:1003054)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 521
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I am tired of drivers who blame others for the accidents they cause. Bordais obviously punted Short off, and even seemed justified to do so. He should suffer some sort of penalty.
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__________________
I specialize in the history of small displacement sports racers from France and Italy, circa 1930-1960.
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14 Jun 2004, 10:36 (Ref:1003328)
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#14 | ||
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The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,303
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As I recall he said "that car had been travelling slowly for some time". In which case why didn't he just pass him? If I were Henri P I'd be more than a little bit embarrassed.
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__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
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14 Jun 2004, 11:15 (Ref:1003378)
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#15 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 466
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Luckily Rollcentre have another chassis, I hope they will make it to the rest of the LMES season.
As for the incident, Bourdais later apologized, but it was probably because he was told to do so. |
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14 Jun 2004, 14:05 (Ref:1003635)
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#16 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Quote:
Bourdais simply popped him on the left real tire...and he was not even partially along-side of him... Not only did he knock RollCentre of the track, but he nearly took the Audi #88 out, and they were leading the race at the time... Then when SpeedChannel interviewed him in the garage area, he seemed to thing that Roll Centre should have gotten out of his way.... Derek Daly quickly went into a 2 minute editorial that basically refuted every argument Bourdais had put forward, and said that he was clearly wrong for making the contact when the Pesca 17 was a number of laps behind the RollCentre car.... A nasty blemish on what was an otherwise great week for Bourdais... |
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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14 Jun 2004, 14:40 (Ref:1003664)
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#17 | |||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9,482
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Quote:
Another "bad mark" for ACO ?  Notice that his behaviour (if it's confirmed) could come from his recent success in CART. Did he become Mr Big Cheese ? I don't think so ; too bad anyway for the Dallara ; I'd like to hear Bourdais and Short together... What did say Short after that ? Last edited by Fab; 14 Jun 2004 at 14:44. |
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14 Jun 2004, 15:48 (Ref:1003727)
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#18 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Quote:
Belmondo cursed on TV when being interviewed by Amanda Stretton, saying some "effing c***" had hit him up the rear. It's caused quite a stir over here, with our delicate ears, and of course without replays showing a car hitting him, people are saying Belmondo wasn't hit at all and just lost it. I couldn't find in the ACO's notes whether he was helped into the Corvette or not, and I don't see a Pescarolo pitstop listed near the time of the incident. Perhaps I'm missing it. The incident was around 23h00 local time (for anyone who wants to check it out). http://www.lemans.org/univers_sport/..._com28_gb.html It's easiest to just manually change the number in the URL to check the notes after this (28, 29, 30 etc.). Also the hourly summaries: http://www.lemans.org/univers_sport/...Summary07.html edit: I do note that in the lap charts, the 17 car dropped 9 positions around this time: http://www.lemans.org/univers_sport/...classement.pdf edit 2: I note that the only other cars that dropped positions during this time were Larbre and Epsilon, and both are likely to have had other reasons to be dropping down the charts at that time. Last edited by paul-collins; 14 Jun 2004 at 16:05. |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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15 Jun 2004, 11:45 (Ref:1004601)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,390
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One of DSC's contributors has seen footage that very clearly shows Belmondo being hit very hard from the rear.
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15 Jun 2004, 11:54 (Ref:1004609)
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#20 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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Quote:
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15 Jun 2004, 13:09 (Ref:1004706)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,390
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No, not in the one brief viewing he had - unaccountably it wasn't repeated. But there was definitely a substantial impact.
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15 Jun 2004, 13:30 (Ref:1004738)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Well, then, I'll have to pull out the tape and look for myself. I'm pretty sure that the Speed coverage showed another car in the vicinity once, and never again, too. I had written it off as my imagination that a replay had gone on long enough to show the second car, as it had never shown up again.
The accident was at about 10:45; Based on Speed's coverage, that puts me into tape #2 about at 5h45. I'll check in 12 hours or so when I get a moment. |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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15 Jun 2004, 13:48 (Ref:1004776)
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#23 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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There was such a cloud of dust stirred up by the Corvette that all I saw on the coverage was the Belmondo hitting the Corvette....I couldn't see anything else in the image....
The Belmondo contact with the Corvette was what caused the serious rear-end damage to the 'Vette.... But Belmondo was rather graphic in his description of the incident from his perspective, and he claimed that he was hit very hard.... |
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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15 Jun 2004, 13:50 (Ref:1004781)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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BTW...the only way that the Belmondo-Corvette impact was known was due to the 'Vette clearly moving forward from the impact after its shunt, when the car had nearly come to rest and was rolling forward to get back on the track before being hit by Belmondo...
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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15 Jun 2004, 17:29 (Ref:1005015)
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#25 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 132
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I think what was the most sickening about the Bourdais incident was the way he appeared to gloat over what he'd done during a radio interview given soon after the event. He even seemed to infer that the move was both calculated and deliberate, and that Martin Short shouldn't even be competing at an endurance event like Le Mans.
What Bourdais failed to acknowledge was the fact that the Rollcentre Dallara was some seven laps ahead of him, had no moral or regulatory requirement to move aside and let him by, and had, in truth, only detained him for a handful of turns. To claim that he'd been held up for "a couple of laps" is scurrilous lie. Having a car within your sight at the end of a straight does not constitute an overtaking opportunity! With the benefit of hindsight, what makes this incident more unforgivable, if such a thing was possible, is the knowledge that Martin was preparing to let the Frenchman through when they'd got through this particular corner - where overtaking would have been both more practical and less dangerous. If Bourdais dares to show his face at the Silverstone round of the LMES, I suggest we all let him know what we think of his behaviour. As for the half-hearted "apology", what would that have been worth if Martin's accident had destroyed more than just the car? Carbon fibre tubs and panels can be replaced . . . In brief, this was crass stupidity by an arrogant fool; a man whose over-inflated opinion of his own self-importance could have got someone killed. Bourdais should indeed be sanctioned. In the meantime, best wishes to Martin for a speedy recovery. |
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