[Multi 21] Ricciardo vs Vettel 2014

[fomoco]

I cant recall the article that I read recently but the gist of it is , Dan has adjusted to this years car, where Seb is still driving as if it was last years car.

Once Seb gets his mind around it, he will be chasing hte mercs as well.

But, hey for now GO Dan.

[321Go]

Started from the front row, and look at where he finished. Again! So what happened to the driving 'genius' who started from the front row, get's out of DRS detection, and get's the win??

The answer my friend, is blowing in the...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Started from the front row, and look at where he finished. Again! So what happened to the driving 'genius' who started from the front row, get's out of DRS detection, and get's the win??

The answer my friend, is blowing in the...

Same safety car that wrecked Rosberg's race, and then a spin trying to push too hard to salvage the situation. So hang him for trying!

Until that he had Danni Ricc more than covered!

[321Go]

Same safety car that wrecked Alonso's race?? Because they both pitted at exactly the same time. Must've wrecked Alonso's race too then. Oh wait...

As for the spin.. pushing too hard?? LOL! Oh please...

[Articus]

Originally Posted by wnut

Same safety car that wrecked Rosberg's race, and then a spin trying to push too hard to salvage the situation. So hang him for trying!

Until that he had Danni Ricc more than covered!

Vettel qualified ahead of Ricciardo because of damp track conditions. Vettel is a rainmaster. He won a race in a Toro Rosso of all beast in the wet.

But Vettel doesn't like the car on a bone dry track. It would be a stretch to say he had Ricciardo "Covered".

If it rained all race, I think Vettel could have won the whole thing. But I think Ricciardo would have caught Vettel in dry conditions.

[LampCord]

I'm starting to wonder if Mark Webber wasn't all that good of a driver. And perhaps Vettel is overrated. Just the better driver for 4 years with a dominant car.

Would Hamilton or Alonso have won just as many in his place?

The fact that a Rookie can come in and outperform him race after race makes one wonder. Either Vettel is not as good as his 4 titles would suggest or Ricciardo is the greatest rookie driver in F1 history.

[bella]

beg to differ, officer, ricciardo certainly isn't a rookie. he's had his feet under the table at red bull racing for a fair old time, and obviously he's been racing for other teams in the meantime.

but your point still stands. especially the one about webber not being quite that good. but you'd better duck. i think he still has enthusiastic, dedicated supporters on here

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Articus

Vettel qualified ahead of Ricciardo because of damp track conditions. Vettel is a rainmaster. He won a race in a Toro Rosso of all beast in the wet.

But Vettel doesn't like the car on a bone dry track. It would be a stretch to say he had Ricciardo "Covered".

If it rained all race, I think Vettel could have won the whole thing. But I think Ricciardo would have caught Vettel in dry conditions.

considering how Ricciardo's quickest lap was almost 2 secs quicker then Vettel's during the race, I don't see how he would've won if it was wet, also Ricciardo's tyres weren't warm enough for him to make a quick lap out of it during Q3, but still Vettel out qualified Dan, a rare one at that too.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by bella

beg to differ, officer, ricciardo certainly isn't a rookie. he's had his feet under the table at red bull racing for a fair old time, and obviously he's been racing for other teams in the meantime.

but your point still stands. especially the one about webber not being quite that good. but you'd better duck. i think he still has enthusiastic, dedicated supporters on here

but he is a rookie team mate to a 4 time World Champ, and is considered one of the best drivers in the field, by who? Alonso and Hamilton, don't know if Vergne would've gotten this sort of admiration if (that's a big if) he took that Red Bull seat.

[naca]

Ricciardo definitely isn't a rookie as some people keep saying, he's now done just over 3 full seasons now.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by FAS33

considering how Ricciardo's quickest lap was almost 2 secs quicker then Vettel's during the race, I don't see how he would've won if it was wet, also Ricciardo's tyres weren't warm enough for him to make a quick lap out of it during Q3, but still Vettel out qualified Dan, a rare one at that too.

Please. Don't be ignorant of the facts... Ricciardo went onto the soft tire with 15 laps to go and proceeded to scorch the track. That is what new tires and low fuel will get you.

On the contrary, Vettel was on his last set of tires for some 37 laps. You don't really think Ricciardo is 2 seconds faster than Vettel do you??? And it didn't rain the entire race so like I said, we know that Vettel is the faster driver in the rain.

Vettel has a penchant for being quick in low grip conditions. Cold tires at the start of races and rain. This is no coincidence. He won in a Toro Rosso.

Given that, on a dry track, Ricciardo has Vettel covered in this years car.


I've spotted your Aussie flag in the corner of my eye so you get the benefit of the doubt .

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Articus

Given that, on a dry track, Ricciardo has Vettel covered in this years car.

Which, no doubt, is good enough for him - as it is for me......

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Articus

Please. Don't be ignorant of the facts... Ricciardo went onto the soft tire with 15 laps to go and proceeded to scorch the track. That is what new tires and low fuel will get you.

Indeed and a race win, 2-0 to Ricciardo, you must’ve missed the part where Ricciardo’s cold tyres weren’t at their ideal temperature for him to salvage a quicker lap time in Q3.

Originally Posted by Articus

On the contrary, Vettel was on his last set of tires for some 37 laps. You don't really think Ricciardo is 2 seconds faster than Vettel do you??? And it didn't rain the entire race so like I said, we know that Vettel is the faster driver in the rain.

Nah I think if Red Bull favoured Ricciardo as they do with Vettel now, I’d say around 2 and half seconds max. How do you know that, they haven’t even raced together in the rain yet.

Originally Posted by Articus

Vettel has a penchant for being quick in low grip conditions. Cold tires at the start of races and rain. This is no coincidence. He won in a Toro Rosso.

How come he hasn’t won in that Red Bull this year so far? not to mention he wasn't quick at all during the start of the race.

Originally Posted by Articus

Given that, on a dry track, Ricciardo has Vettel covered in this years car.


I've spotted your Aussie flag in the corner of my eye so you get the benefit of the doubt .

So cause I’m rockin an Aussie flag, that automatically makes me Australian? lol..

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by FAS33

So cause I’m rockin an Aussie flag, that automatically makes me Australian? lol..

agreed, you need to work harder to convince us you are Australian.

[garcon]

I guessed you were a Kiwi ages ago....

[Articus]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Indeed and a race win, 2-0 to Ricciardo, you must’ve missed the part where Ricciardo’s cold tyres weren’t at their ideal temperature for him to salvage a quicker lap time in Q3.

Is that suppose to be an excuse for not getting the job done? It's the same conditions for everyone.

I get that you like Ricciardo and Vettel not so much.. But it's almost like your seeing what you want to see because of that

I'm not sure how you conferred that I thought Vettel should have won a race this year when I just finished my rant about how Ricciardo is better in the dry. But's that's what I mean when people see what they want to see in order to say what they want to say. Just thought i'd let you know.

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by Articus

...........

we know that Vettel is the faster driver in the rain.

Vettel has a penchant for being quick in low grip conditions.
.....................

I can't say if Vettel is quicker than Ricciardo in the wet, I haven't really looked into it and there hasn't been a lot to go on, but Vettel's speed in the wet has generally been because the Red Bull is far better than all the other cars in the wet because of downforce. In slippery conditions, not full wet, Vettel tends to make a lot of mistakes.

[Articus]

Monza in a Toro Rosso?

And feel free to elaborate on all the mistakes that Vettel has made in slippery conditions?

beyond this past weekend. or that bizarre one under safety car with Webbo.

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by LampCord

I'm starting to wonder if Mark Webber wasn't all that good of a driver. And perhaps Vettel is overrated. Just the better driver for 4 years with a dominant car.

Would Hamilton or Alonso have won just as many in his place?

The fact that a Rookie can come in and outperform him race after race makes one wonder. Either Vettel is not as good as his 4 titles would suggest or Ricciardo is the greatest rookie driver in F1 history.

Boy it doesn't take much for people to slag their unfavored drivers and ignore what has actually happened.

Vettel, Is a 4 time world champ. Period. He did this in car(s) that were developed to be perfectly suited to his driving style. He was able to extract that last little bit out of the high performance end of the Red Bull that Webber was just unable to do.

2010, Webber and Vettel were almost inseperable in performance, but Vettel started to exert dominance over Webber in the latter half of the year as Red Bull developed their blown diffuser to provide more and more rear grip. This is something that Vettel was able to exploite more than Webber.

2011, With a continuation of the rear grippy Reb Bull Vettel creamed everyone.

2012, Due to reg changes the Red Bull loses a fair bit of it rear grip and is twitchy in the rear, Webber and Vettel are back on par with both scoring wins early, As the Red Bull is developed and its high rear grip returned Vettel once again dominates his team mate.

2013, A virtual copy of 2011

2014, The Red Bull has again lost its huge rear grip advantage, Ricciardo having come from a car with probably even less rear grip than this years Red Bull is reveling in the extra grip/performance afforded his new car, Vettel on the other hand is struggling (relatively, as he always has with rear grip limited cars) to find a way to get the performance he is used to, but I believe the gap between Dan and him is closing.

Having said all that being a huge Webber and Ricciardo fan, I hope Dan can continue his dominance over Vettel

[Redzone]

Someone needs to stick Vettel in a drift car so he can learn to control a car in a slide lol...


Vettel was a quick driver in the wet in a car with good rear grip. These new regs dont suit him AT ALL. I almost feel sorry for him, he constantly has this expression on his face like his pet hamster has just died.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Articus

Is that suppose to be an excuse for not getting the job done? It's the same conditions for everyone.

I get that you like Ricciardo and Vettel not so much.. But it's almost like your seeing what you want to see because of that

I'm not sure how you conferred that I thought Vettel should have won a race this year when I just finished my rant about how Ricciardo is better in the dry. But's that's what I mean when people see what they want to see in order to say what they want to say. Just thought i'd let you know.

excuse? what's Vettel's excuse for not finishing ahead of Ricciardo despite starting in front of him in the race, where was he during the race? too busy trying to catch his own spins, nope I said that Vettel out qualified Ricciardo at the Hungarian Race, nothing more apart from the fact that it was a rare win over him during qualifying this year, you said that Vettel is quicker then Ricciardo in the race what do you base this comment on? there is no race weekend yet where it has been raining throughout the whole race, so how can you make such a premature prediction with no evidence? ''oh because he won in a Toro Rosso'' guess what? they weren't team mates back then, I'm just letting you know that as well, but you choose to ignore it.

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

..............

Vettel, Is a 4 time world champ. Period. He did this in car(s) that were developed to be perfectly suited to his driving style. He was able to extract that last little bit out of the high performance end of the Red Bull that Webber was just unable to do.

2010, Webber and Vettel were almost inseperable in performance, but Vettel started to exert dominance over Webber in the latter half of the year as Red Bull developed their blown diffuser to provide more and more rear grip. This is something that Vettel was able to exploite more than Webber.

2011, With a continuation of the rear grippy Reb Bull Vettel creamed everyone.

2012, Due to reg changes the Red Bull loses a fair bit of it rear grip and is twitchy in the rear, Webber and Vettel are back on par with both scoring wins early, As the Red Bull is developed and its high rear grip returned Vettel once again dominates his team mate.

2013, A virtual copy of 2011

2014, The Red Bull has again lost its huge rear grip advantage, Ricciardo having come from a car with probably even less rear grip than this years Red Bull is reveling in the extra grip/performance afforded his new car, Vettel on the other hand is struggling (relatively, as he always has with rear grip limited cars) to find a way to get the performance he is used to, but I believe the gap between Dan and him is closing.

Having said all that being a huge Webber and Ricciardo fan, I hope Dan can continue his dominance over Vettel

All very well, but you're talking Vettel and Mark Webber. I don't think anyone disagrees that Vettel had the upper-hand against Webber overall, but not at all times. Webber wasn't one of the elite drivers such as Alonso or Hamilton, but his number of wins and great performances showed just how much better the Red Bull was during those 4 years.
I didn't get all carried away with the 4-times World Champion driver thing, mainly because of best car and best team, but also because I just plain didn't (and don't still) like Vettel, nor did I like the spoilt-brat air he had about him which was made worse by the team favourtism towards him.
World Champion driver doesn't mean best driver, World Championship team definitely means best team.

Even though I don't particularly like Vettel, I do appreciate he is a top driver, just not as top as some others. And this year it seems to prove there are a few more "others" just as capable as Vettel.

Based on all the forum posts I have seen by Vettel fans, which essentially imply that Vettel is the best out there, will they accept at the end of the year that driverX (Rosberg or Hamilton) is better than Vettel because driverX is world champion so he must be? (not necessarily my view). Would be a bit ironic for them to say that driverX is only champion because Mercedes had the best car this year, even though that would be true.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by MarkG

All very well, but you're talking Vettel and Mark Webber. I don't think anyone disagrees that Vettel had the upper-hand against Webber overall, but not at all times. Webber wasn't one of the elite drivers such as Alonso or Hamilton, but his number of wins and great performances showed just how much better the Red Bull was during those 4 years.
I didn't get all carried away with the 4-times World Champion driver thing, mainly because of best car and best team, but also because I just plain didn't (and don't still) like Vettel, nor did I like the spoilt-brat air he had about him which was made worse by the team favourtism towards him.
World Champion driver doesn't mean best driver, World Championship team definitely means best team.

Even though I don't particularly like Vettel, I do appreciate he is a top driver, just not as top as some others. And this year it seems to prove there are a few more "others" just as capable as Vettel.

Based on all the forum posts I have seen by Vettel fans, which essentially imply that Vettel is the best out there, will they accept at the end of the year that driverX (Rosberg or Hamilton) is better than Vettel because driverX is world champion so he must be? (not necessarily my view). Would be a bit ironic for them to say that driverX is only champion because Mercedes had the best car this year, even though that would be true.

We'll never know who the best driver out there is because there's no impartial way of comparing them. What I will say is that if Vettel can bag not one, not two, not three... but four world championships... back to back... in a car that was often not the best out there... with little more than mediocre driving talent... then there's something seriously awry with the F1 world championship and those competing in it. There is of course the possibility, remote in your eyes I appreciate, that he is having great difficulty acclimatizing to the 2014 cars

[steve_r]

I'm not a fan of Vettel, and there is surely no one who can argue that he is not having a poor season.

I suppose if you buy into the hype that someone is the "best ever", you are going to end up being very dissapointed when they turn out to be a mere mortal. Let's not completely write him off for showing his mortal side though.

Vettel is a great driver. I'm sure he will show that again at some point - either when get gets to grip with this years car, and/or in future seasons.

Ricciardo is the real deal. He should be a genuine WDC contender next season if Renault get their act together.

[Paradise City]

Vettel won his championships on the back of a superior Neweymobile that was the class of the field. Ricciardo is performing feats in a car that is not the class of the field and could set a standard, as a driving talent, all his own going forward on initial indications.

In Vettel's corner is that win in the wet in that Toro Rosso and other occasional 'stand out' performances, so we can with certainty say he's in the top tier talent-wise. But he's not a man conspicuously superior in talent to that of the best of his peers.