[Multi 21] Ricciardo vs Vettel 2014

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by davyboy

We'll never know who the best driver out there is because there's no impartial way of comparing them. What I will say is that if Vettel can bag not one, not two, not three... but four world championships... back to back... in a car that was often not the best out there... with little more than mediocre driving talent... then there's something seriously awry with the F1 world championship and those competing in it. There is of course the possibility, remote in your eyes I appreciate, that he is having great difficulty acclimatizing to the 2014 cars

Not saying 4 titles isn't praise-worthy, your average F1 driver just can't do that, but even the above-average F1 driver has to have the stars aligned and lottery-winning type luck for it to happen, plus other teams making stupid mistakes that give RB races on a plate, plus more...
I can't believe though, that even the most ardent Vettel fan can look himself and honestly state, on his life, that those 4 titles would have happened with Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Rosberg, or (whoever you fancy is best) as a team-mate? I'm talking all 4 titles, not, not winning any.


Yes, I agree he is having difficulties this year, it sort of surprises me, but also sort of backs up my views on him in the past. The fact that Kimi is struggling so much also, REALLY surprises me.

I like the fact that the 2014 cars are revealing the weaknesses of some drivers and the strengths of others, I just wish that pit-to-car radio was banned and only to be used for safety reasons. A lot of the inate driver skills that some have are being negated by pit-to-car radio, and the drivers' title is now diminished compared to years gone. We all know how important a good car is in motorsport, that's always been the case, but too much of a drivers' necessary abilities are done by team engineers nowadays.

[321Go]

And here I was thinking I was the only person on the forum who isn't a fan of Vettel as a driver, and a personality to a slight extent.

Where have you guys been??

I guess I just don't sugarcoat my comments on finger-boi as you guys do.


Actually, if I was to be honest, I had admiration for Vettel up until Turkey 2010. It was downhill after that. A very steep downhill.

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by 321Go

........Actually, if I was to be honest, I had admiration for Vettel up until Turkey 2010. It was downhill after that. A very steep downhill.

Exactly the same time I took a dislike to him. Can't say I admired him before that though

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by MarkG

I can't believe though, that even the most ardent Vettel fan can look himself and honestly state, on his life, that those 4 titles would have happened with Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Rosberg, or (whoever you fancy is best) as a team-mate? I'm talking all 4 titles, not, not winning any.

in fairness as none of them have done it, i would question if any of those drivers have what it takes to win 4 in a row? Alonso had a melt down after winning 2 in a row, questions still dog LH about consistency, Button and others have shown they can win one (or could win one given the right car) but actually winning more than one is another matter all together.

imo just looking at physical skill/ability is such a narrow way to judge an athlete because when you reach this level they all have tremendous skills...what separates them is the mental aspect, how they work under pressure.

maybe DR at this point in his career vs the point SV is currently in with his career has more physical abilities but has he been tested mentally yet? how will he deal with the massive expectations now being placed on him?

at some point in every athletes career they fail to live up to expectations...maybe its the next match maybe its 5 years from now maybe it happens after years of success, whenever it is i wonder what you guys will be saying about DR then?

anyways im enjoying the success that DR is currently enjoying and for me it doesnt have to come at the expense of another driver.

[MarkG]

maybe you're absolutely correct and maybe there are many forum visitors who will agree with you... maybe a monkey could be trained to fly to the moon..
unless someone says, maybe black is white, who can argue..

I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to a personal view on drivers, in that, I have my view and won't be swayed.. no maybe about that.

[Articus]

I hate to be the one but...

How do we know that Ricciardo's performance is not simply due to have a good handling car that he likes? (much the same way Vettel had since 2010-2014)

It is still believed the Red Bull still has the most downforce and that the only reason they aren't at the front is because of the lackluster engine. So was it really surprising to see him go around the outside of Lewis on new soft tires?

There is no way to prove Ricciardo is driving "above the cars limits" in the same vein that Fernando Alonso or Lewis Hamilton can do. Or that he would handle a drastically different handling Red Bull better than Vettel did after 4 years.

I say this becuase people here seem to be using Vettel's crummy showing this season to launch Ricciardo into some kind of Hall of Famer.

The Red Bull is still a very good car. So much praise for Ricciardo and talking about Vettel like he is worthless. But I still can't get past Vettel winning that race in Monza in the Toro Rosso. And he did that in a grid that was arguably a lot more talented than the grid half full of juveniles that we have today. Give him a break? Praise Ricciardo but not at his cost...

Not saying Vettel is the best there is, Hamilton and Alonso are up there. But it would be a lie to say he isn't extremely adept.

[FAS33]

Daniel Ricciardo is a better overall racer then Vettel, this years car's are much more difficult than last years, and for a newcomer to the Elite Redbull team, you'd expect the 4 time champ to deliver, all the fans kept saying he could win in anything, now that he's not in the fastest car (which he had the privilege to drive 4 years straight) he's struggling to adapt to the new way these cars are handling, more driver input is required in these turboed cars, Daniel has the right balance, he has speed, he can race, overtake, can look after the tyres and he's got the best attitude to match. You can't take anything away from Vettel and his Neweymobil, he too advantage of that car and ran away with it, still Ricciardo is faster then Vettel in terms of raw pace and he's thinker.

[steve_r]

That's is bound to happen when you are comprehensively out performed by your previously unheralded team-mate, after 4 years of looking like the class of the field, and being built up into demi-god state by a lot of F1 commentators.

It's strange to hear people harping on about the wet race win in Monza 6 years ago to demonstrate Vettel's skill. Surely there are other examples to choose from. Bourdais put the same car on row 2 of the grid, so the Torro Rosso must have suited the wet. Anyway, I'm not certain that you can say that the 2008 field was more talented than todays bunch - there were plenty of mid-field fodder back then too,, but that is just a matter of opinion.

Time is only going to tell whether Vettel will up his level of performance to his previously perceived #1 status, or whether he was like a lot of other WDC's, and just happened to be a very good driver in a very dominant team (x4).

[chunterer]

Who are we missing from 2008 that were so much better than what we have now btw?

I'm intrigued....

Bourdais wasn't bad at all pace wise in 2008.... In fact he was downright unlucky not to haul a good bag of points against Seb. I think it was at least 2 races where he would have got to the podium glory before Vettel did had it not been for car failures.

it was the following season it all went wrong. Couldn't get on with his car and got humbled by his teammate. Tsshh...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by FAS33

still Ricciardo is faster then Vettel in terms of raw pace and he's thinker.

Now would that happen to be fact or your opinion ?

[Articus]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Who are we missing from 2008 that were so much better than what we have now btw?

Kimi Raikkonen , Competitive Felipe Massa, C competitive Fernando Alonso in a competitive car
(well take that however you want - he won races ), Competitive Ferrari, Competitive Mclaren
Robert Kubica, BMW.

The undying allegiance to Ricciardo in this particular thread is off putting. I challenge some to read their post back to themselves? Bye for now.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Now would that happen to be fact or your opinion ?

he wisely thinks before he opens his mouth to say something into a mic that's for sure

and Ricciardo is beating Vettel in almost every race stat so far this year, they are the facts, not opinion. (just saying)

[321Go]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Now would that happen to be fact or your opinion ?

Have you watched any of the F1 racing this season? If you have - then you should be able to answer that question yourself. If you cannot answer it yourself, then we know where your bias is geared to. Simples really.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Have you watched any of the F1 racing this season? .

I haven't actually. I stopped watching at the end of last year. Would you mind bringing me up to speed on what's happened

[Catingaround]

Poor Seb, he couldn't dominate forever in a row, it's so sad.

[Wrex]

Originally Posted by Articus

So was it really surprising to see him go around the outside of Lewis on new soft tires?

Not really. But the current championship leader in a better car couldn't do it on even fresher tyres.....


Daniel is having a good year. Seb's not. That doesn't make DR the next F1 God and doesn't erase SV's 4 WDC.

I saw Michael Schumacher have bad seasons, Alonso and Hamilton too. It's like that (thank god).

I'm not a fan of Vettel, and am a fan or Ricciardo. So I'm glad to see the current state of play. But only a fool thinks that battle is over.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Not really. But the current championship leader in a better car couldn't do it on even fresher tyres.....


Daniel is having a good year. Seb's not. That doesn't make DR the next F1 God and doesn't erase SV's 4 WDC.

I saw Michael Schumacher have bad seasons, Alonso and Hamilton too. It's like that (thank god).

I'm not a fan of Vettel, and am a fan or Ricciardo. So I'm glad to see the current state of play. But only a fool thinks that battle is over.

Good post - well said!

[garcon]

Wrex! How the hell are you?!

Glad to see an experienced voice of reason return to put all these young tykes in their place!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see the flaw in the logic that suggests one driver wins four WDCs due to nothing more than a happy coincidence of a quick car that suits him while another driver comes along and gets the better of him for half a season due to nothing less than him being the next Jack Brabham.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Not really. But the current championship leader in a better car couldn't do it on even fresher tyres.....


Daniel is having a good year. Seb's not. That doesn't make DR the next F1 God and doesn't erase SV's 4 WDC.

I saw Michael Schumacher have bad seasons, Alonso and Hamilton too. It's like that (thank god).

I'm not a fan of Vettel, and am a fan or Ricciardo. So I'm glad to see the current state of play. But only a fool thinks that battle is over.

He is not God for he is mortal. But he is and always will be the Fastest F1 Driver of all time.

[garcon]

Or until the next Aussie comes along, whichever is the sooner...?

[FAS33]

my lack of funds is stopping me from lining up on the F1 grid next year

[Aysedasi]

I'm almost tempted to lend you a fiver to start a fund.........

[FAS33]

you are too kind, I'm well on my way in getting that RBR #2 seat now

[Aysedasi]

Interesting to see how this thread has started to die as the gap between Ricciardo and Vettel seems to grow ever wider.....

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Just as it seems that Vettel has the edge, Ricciardo beats him anyway! Awesome pass. The more I see this guy, the more I like him.

But I think that the RBR is better than most people credit, whilst Seb's season has been woeful.