Audi LMP1 Discussion

[Acid09]

2017 Audi in the hands of Joest won't happen, there's no car, it hasn't even been built yet and contracts with suppliers have all been terminated already.

Also, to no one's surprise, Audi will not be supporting their efforts in any shape or form.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-16112105.html

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Acid09

2017 Audi in the hands of Joest won't happen, there's no car, it hasn't even been built yet and contracts with suppliers have all been terminated already.

Also, to no one's surprise, Audi will not be supporting their efforts in any shape or form.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-16112105.html

Everything in that article makes perfect sense. It was all very much a pipe dream. It would make more sense for Joest to partner with someone who already has a non-hybrid LMP1 project in the works (maybe as a customer car?) Plus... funding.

Richard

[Matt]

Y'all better hope Toyota don't win Le Mans, once they do, they're out.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Matt

Y'all better hope Toyota don't win Le Mans, once they do, they're out.

i tend to agree.

[GasperG]

I disagree.

[GT6]

i also disagree if toyota win then the pressure on them to do better than mazda will be very strong from within toyota, they love success

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Matt

Y'all better hope Toyota don't win Le Mans, once they do, they're out.

So if they don't win... how long will they remain? I am just trying to understand the rules of how this works.

All joking aside, what does history say is typical? Looking back at the history of LeMans (or even just Toyota in other series) how often will a factory effort take their maiden win (or new win after a drought) and then immediately quit?

I just did a very quick visual scan of the Le Mans winners wikipedia page (I stopped in the late 1970's)...

Porsche 2015 (No... still racing)
Peugeot 2009 (No... raced in 2010 and 2011)
Bentley 2003 (Yes!... But was it a Bentley or an Audi!)
Audi 2000 (No... factory effort until this year other than the odd Bentley year)
BMW 1999 (Yes!... Switch to F1)
Peugeot 1992 (No... raced in 1993, but pulled out after that)
Mazda 1991 (No... raced in 1992 even after rotor was outlawed)
Jaguar 1988 (No... raced through 1991)
Renault 1978 (Yes!... Switch to F1)

I am no historian, so I might have some details wrong, but in general it seems it happens rarely and when it does it is to move onto something else equally large. In this case, I doubt we see Toyota win and then switch back to F1!!

Richard

[Acid09]

Most manufacturers stay around to win at least two times because winning Le Mans once is always seen as a bit of a one-off.

BMW was an exception as they had their F1 programme already lined up that couldn't be postponed and doing both was no option. Renault was never big into sports cars and probably just wanted it crossed off the list.

As one poster said above, one win would mean Toyota would "just" tie Mazda, I doubt that'll be enough for them.

Also, Toyota gets the most PR-payoff from the current rules as unlike Porsche & Audi, they're actually seen as a manufacturer who's big about hybrid road cars. So going down this road suits them, it has a lot of promo value.

They're also doing it on a sensible budget which seems sustainable for a long run. Also, let's not forget that they have to have something to keep TMG busy, their involvement in the rally programme seems to be minimal.

[TF110]

Yeah I think if they win, they should stay on to win multiple times. Not just one and done. But this is the Audi thread

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Most manufacturers stay around to win at least two times because winning Le Mans once is always seen as a bit of a one-off.

BMW was an exception as they had their F1 programme already lined up that couldn't be postponed and doing both was no option. Renault was never big into sports cars and probably just wanted it crossed off the list.

As one poster said above, one win would mean Toyota would "just" tie Mazda, I doubt that'll be enough for them.

Also, Toyota gets the most PR-payoff from the current rules as unlike Porsche & Audi, they're actually seen as a manufacturer who's big about hybrid road cars. So going down this road suits them, it has a lot of promo value.

They're also doing it on a sensible budget which seems sustainable for a long run. Also, let's not forget that they have to have something to keep TMG busy, their involvement in the rally programme seems to be minimal.

TMGs involvement in the WEC programme has shrunken from earlier reports. Seems like much of the car development has moved to technical center in Japan.

[NSX_LeMans]

Lucas di Grassi has spoken to Grande Premio earlier this week.

Audi Sport personnel will be moved to Formula E.
May still race in LMP1, possibly in a third car.
He has been offered a seat in DTM, but choose to stay in Formula E.
Will possibly race in NAEC.

[chernaudi]

I wonder if Porsche or Toyota could pick up some of the Audi Sport sponsors who are no longer involved in the WEC program (note that all sponsorships outside of Michelin--due to DTM using spec Hankook tires--are also shared with DTM)? About the only one I can think of is maybe Oris moving to Toyota (Porsche already have Chopard as their watch sponsor) or Akrapovic moving to Porsche (Akrapovic makes exhaust systems for Porsche 911s, including all the 911 race cars that Porsche runs or sells).

I don't know if TMG would pick up the Akrapovic sponsorship if offered to them, as I don't think that any Toyota or Lexus models have aftermarket exhaust systems available from Akrapovic.

EDIT: I checked Akrapovic's website, and no, they currently don't offer any aftermarket exhaust systems for Toyota/Lexus. So that's one sponsor that TMG likely won't get.

These are of course sponsors that are still asscoatiated with Audi Sport (albeit in DTM and GT3) that don't clash (Oris vs Chopard for Porsche, Castrol vs Mobil for both Porsche and Toyota) that might still want to be involved in the WEC.

[the sniper]

Originally Posted by Acid09

2017 Audi in the hands of Joest won't happen, there's no car, it hasn't even been built yet and contracts with suppliers have all been terminated already.

Also, to no one's surprise, Audi will not be supporting their efforts in any shape or form.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-16112105.html

While I can't see it happening, VW Group motorsport boss Wolfgang Durheimer has had this to say to Auto Car on Audi's LMP1:

Durheimer also confirmed that Audi's World Endurance Championship (WEC) LMP1 racers are available for privateer teams to run if they can raise sufficient budget. The works squad's involvement Le Mans and the WEC was terminated at the end of thsi season's championship. "There is interest, but it is more complex than the World Rally Championship situation - these cars are on a different level technologically to anything else racing today, including F1," he said. "They are not cars that a privateer can just operate, but we are very willing to co-operate with any team that has the expertise and budget to race them."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...r-can-be-found (Last paragraph)

Just thought you guys might be interested to see that anyway.

[chernaudi]

Again, very unlikely to happen. I don't even see Audi Sport doing demo laps or releasing photos or renders of what the car was supposed to look like anytime soon, either.

[Creep89]

We should launch a Crowdfunding project.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Creep89

We should launch a Crowdfunding project.

Or reinvigorate an existing one

[Simmi]

Lots of hope now in WRC circles that the 2017 Polo will compete next year. Difference is that is a cheaper (almost turn-key) winning package that is completely up to date for 2017 regs.

The P1s are so much more complex. Even if all the mechanics, engineers are still around to run them - I just don't see who steps in to bankroll it? There have been no private manufacturer P1s since 2011 for a reason.

[Acid09]

The way I understand it, Durheimer is talking about the 2016 cars with regards to making them available to customers.

Again, the 2017 car has not been build yet, there is no car that could be handed over to someone else. A private backer would not only finance the car's operation (already highly unlikely), he would need to finance the car being build first (including re-establishing deals with suppliers etc.)

That's way to much for any privateer to pull off, even if backed by an experienced squad like Joest.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The way I understand it, Durheimer is talking about the 2016 cars with regards to making them available to customers.

This (MST; de; "Klartext: Der für 2017 fertig entwickelte, aber noch nicht komplett aufgebaute neue Audi R18 könnte in Kundenhand in den Wettbewerb gehen.") makes it seem to me they are indeed talking about the 2017 car. Clearly this would amount to a crazy level of commitment no non-billionaire "privateer" can muster..

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Lots of hope now in WRC circles that the 2017 Polo will compete next year. Difference is that is a cheaper (almost turn-key) winning package that is completely up to date for 2017 regs.

The P1s are so much more complex. Even if all the mechanics, engineers are still around to run them - I just don't see who steps in to bankroll it? There have been no private manufacturer P1s since 2011 for a reason.

It's an interesting comparison. In WRC a privateer can run a factory car, in WEC, not really. Makes me wonder if that should be taken in to account when drafting the next set of regulations. To make it more likely to get some customer cars out there. Or even force the manufacturers to supply them. At a reasonable price of course.

[YorkshireLad]

Why couldn't they run the 16' cars, how much would they cost, must be difficult to put a price on a prototype and the spares.


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[Creep89]

They wouldn't sell but rather loan the cars out for a year. Basically the same VW intends to do with their 2017 WRC car.

[the sniper]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

It's an interesting comparison. In WRC a privateer can run a factory car, in WEC, not really.

Originally Posted by Creep89

They wouldn't sell but rather loan the cars out for a year. Basically the same VW intends to do with their 2017 WRC car.

In the case of VW and the WRC, it's the in-house VW team that is effectively going to be contracted out to run the 2017 cars for whoever pays (Red Bull and/or Qatar), rather than the cars being loaned to privateer operations. This was apparently the offer for 2016 cars too, they'd have been run by VW Motorsport staff. Apologies if you already understood this.

[msd76]

To lease out the Polo’s with someone with enough money makes sense, the cars are already built, tested and sorted. But sadly it doesn’t make sense with the RP7 for way too many reasons. If a car is to be completed It will only ever built as a museum piece. And we will probably have to wait a few years until Audi will make a big thing about the 20th or 25th anniversary of first winning Le Mans and they refer to it as the car that should of won Audi’s 14th le Mans.

[chernaudi]

As far as I can tell, at best (a few weeks back, granted), Audi might have finished building the first prototype and maybe do a few laps with it in celebration of successfully ending the program (Peugeot did similar after they pulled the plug on their LMP1 program). And I don't know if there's anyone willing to spend the coin, even with help from Audi Sport, to run the R18 as a private team in any from. It'd still take tens of millions of dollars for it to happen.

Either that, or Audi Sport is hoping that someone with more money than brains/dollars then sense will plink down the money to buy the cars as a museum piece or to run them.