2014 SCCA World Challenge

[Mike Hedlund]

There ARE rules for FIA GT3, stop with the bogus information.

Once the cars are homologated by the FIA through the manufacturers, they're off limits for changes unless those changes are done by the manufacturer and then RE-HOMOLOGATED by the FIA. Hell, even this year there was a freeze on any changes to any car so nobody was allowed to change anything anyway. Because the cars are BOP'd by the individual series (and they always end up about the same, because it works) there's no incentive to create a total class killer car as it'll just get BOP'd to be even with everyone else.

They're so strict on this we're not even allowed to change gear ratios at tracks, which gives the non-GT3 cars (Cadillac / GTR / Corvette / Acura) a big advantage over the course of a season.

-mike

[ttdriver2009]

Since the non-GT3 cars have such a big advantage, this makes me wonder why someone would want to invest in a GT3 car. Why not just buy a CTS-V or TLX? Why do they get the advantage? Are they the DP's of World Challenge?

Just so you know, the Corvette and GTR are GT3 cars as Nismo sells a GT3 GTR and Callaway (at least used to sell) a C6 GT3 Corvette. Please don't tell me that SCCA allowed a different version of the GTR and C6 over the pure FIA GT3 car specifications. Starting to sound like what Grand-Am used to do.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

Since the non-GT3 cars have such a big advantage, this makes me wonder why someone would want to invest in a GT3 car. Why not just buy a CTS-V or TLX? Why do they get the advantage?

Because they aren't for sale. GM will NOT sell you a car to compete against the factory in the same series and class.

The TLX is a ground up build at RealTime, and Acura was even being stingy with them for chassis as they don't' have many.

[Breitling24]

PWC, "for the fans." Increase of live streaming capabilities.

http://sportscar365.com/gt/world-cha...or-long-beach/

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

Since the non-GT3 cars have such a big advantage, this makes me wonder why someone would want to invest in a GT3 car. Why not just buy a CTS-V or TLX? Why do they get the advantage? Are they the DP's of World Challenge?

They aren't for sale, they have no resale value, and even if you could buy them, they'd be more expensive than a GT3 car.

Just so you know, the Corvette and GTR are GT3 cars as Nismo sells a GT3 GTR and Callaway (at least used to sell) a C6 GT3 Corvette. Please don't tell me that SCCA allowed a different version of the GTR and C6 over the pure FIA GT3 car specifications. Starting to sound like what Grand-Am used to do.

And just so you know, the Corvette's (if they show up) and GTR's in PWC are not GT3 cars, they're cars built by race shops from the street car. These cars have been running in the series for years.

The reason they're still allowed is so that the teams running them didn't have to buy brand new cars over night. It's generally what series do when they give a damn about the teams in the series.

-mike

[cmk]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

Since the non-GT3 cars have such a big advantage, this makes me wonder why someone would want to invest in a GT3 car. Why not just buy a CTS-V or TLX? Why do they get the advantage? Are they the DP's of World Challenge?

Just so you know, the Corvette and GTR are GT3 cars as Nismo sells a GT3 GTR and Callaway (at least used to sell) a C6 GT3 Corvette. Please don't tell me that SCCA allowed a different version of the GTR and C6 over the pure FIA GT3 car specifications. Starting to sound like what Grand-Am used to do.

I don't think you're really understanding the history of World Challenge. The series was not a GT3 series, even in part, until quite recently. It wasn't quite run-what-you-brung, but they purposely allowed a wide variety of cars to enter. These included Cadillacs for years, among others. They didn't "allow" them to enter a different car in a pure GT3 series, they decided to start allowing people to enter GT3 cars in what wasn't (and isn't) a GT3 championship. Now it may make some sense for them to move in that direction in the future, but they obviously are not now. Both Cadillac and Acura have been long-time supporters of the series so it is not surprising they are not legislating their programs out of existence.

The Corvettes (which I think are all gone now) and the GTRs predate the inclusion of GT3 cars in the championship, so of course they are not GT3 chassis. I'm pretty sure Mike knows that already, being a driver in the series and all...

[rich07]

The Corvettes and the GTR certainly predate the GT3 cars, years ago there was an R34 GTR in the series.

Even before the GT3 cars came I was interested in the cars. The Audis, the Realtime NSX, the Cadillacs, the plethora of Vipers and Vettes were all awesome

I have a series guide from about a decade ago, can't find the damn thing though

[ttdriver2009]

So, the GTR predates the GT3 cars. I assume the CTS-V does also? So, since the Acura is new (hasn't come out yet), it will be an FIA GT3 car. Now it makes sense. Protect the existing teams and from here on out, everything will be GT3.

As for the Porsche's, I didn't see any of them that ran from last year. Looks like they are all new. Are the old ones not competitive?

[Speed-King]

The Acura will not be a GT3-car.

And yes, the old Porsches would probably be uncompetitive.

[BullMan]

AWD is not allowed in FIA GT3 rules. A car has to be homologated by the FIA to be a GT3 car. Ginetta has a national homolgation for the UK in their national GT3 series.

[ttdriver2009]

So, the TLX will not be GT3, the CTS-V is grandfathered in as non-GT3, the GTR is not GT3 (I assume that car is AWD). Then a team that runs in the series tells us that these non-GT3 cars have an advantage? Now the Porsches from last year are not competitive? I really like GT3 and hated what TUSK did with GTD but it is sounding like that PWC is doing something just as bad or worse. I'm wondering if I should go back to the Blancpain gt3 series and wait until the states can figure out what they want to do.

[Matt]

The Hawk GTR is RWD as of this season.

[Maelochs]

ttdriver2009: go to the PWC website, do some research, and above all watch the racing before you write of the series.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

So, the TLX will not be GT3, the CTS-V is grandfathered in as non-GT3, the GTR is not GT3 (I assume that car is AWD). Then a team that runs in the series tells us that these non-GT3 cars have an advantage? Now the Porsches from last year are not competitive? I really like GT3 and hated what TUSK did with GTD but it is sounding like that PWC is doing something just as bad or worse. I'm wondering if I should go back to the Blancpain gt3 series and wait until the states can figure out what they want to do.

It clearly states in the FIA viewership manual that you are only allowed to follow one GT3 series per year.

[MoMedic9019]

ttdriver...pay attention.

1. PWC is NOT a GT3 only series, they are just allowing GT3 cars to run at their full spec.

2. There has not been any grandfathering of anything.

3. The SCCA is using the GT3 rulebook as a manner of BoP as it's already been done. Ditching gear ratios is part of that BoP process as this is the first year full spec GT3 has been allowed in.

4. Watch the racing. I would prefer GT3 be the way they go with the top class. It would be bonkers.

5. Watch Blancpain anyway. It's great stuff.

[MitchZ06]

Pretty much it, PWC isn't GT3 only and as the GT3 cars have been left as is it doesn't appear (so far) that the non-GT3 cars really have an advantage. And yes, I'll be watching BOTH PWC and Blancpain this year for my GT watching.

[Coach Ep]

Updated LB entry list here: http://www.world-challenge.com/image...-Beach-v11.pdf

+ Drissi in a TRG Aston Martin GT3
- still no Lambo/Enge...

[JoeMaters]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Updated LB entry list here: http://www.world-challenge.com/image...-Beach-v11.pdf

+ Drissi in a TRG Aston Martin GT3
- still no Lambo/Enge...

REITER Engineering Thanks a lot! We won't compete in Long Beach. But we're planning to be present at least with one of a Reiter Gallardo race car at the PWC. Either fielded by Reiter Engineering or by one of our customers. We need to coordinate with our race program in Europe...
Unlike · Reply · 1 · April 2 at 4:08pm

[cmk]

Too bad, if no great shock. Would've liked to see Enge have a run at the championship, but I guess he's in the SaReNi (Reiter) Camaro in Europe as well.

Interesting to see Palmer end up in GT rather than GT-A on that list. Has he been upgraded by the powers that be?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by cmk

Interesting to see Palmer end up in GT rather than GT-A on that list. Has he been upgraded by the powers that be?

Ya. Rulebook says if a GT-A driver gets an overall podium they get bumped. The basic point of the class is for those gentleman drivers that don't really have a hope in getting onto the podium.

-mike

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Ya. Rulebook says if a GT-A driver gets an overall podium they get bumped. The basic point of the class is for those gentleman drivers that don't really have a hope in getting onto the podium.

-mike

Thanks Mike, I hadn't picked up on that. It's not unreasonable as a rule. Certainly a little different than some interpretations of the pro-am distinction. Maybe it's a little unfair in the first race weekend of the year, when a number of Pro teams are just getting to grips with their car. Nonetheless, I like that it's written into the rulebook too, rather than the on-the-fly decisions in some places. I'm not even thinking of the "obvious" here, more the reclassification of Mayr-Melnhof/Rast in FIA GT last year because someone decided the former was too fast, even though he met their definition of an Am.

It helps me see why you figured you might as well go pro. Hoping you'll find yourself on the podium this year, too!

[rich07]

What a shame about Reiter, hopefully they return sooner then later in the season. Surprised no one in PWC has brought a Reiter Camaro, it's American and cheap to buy and run, I'm sure it would've appealed to someone in PWC

[ttdriver2009]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Ya. Rulebook says if a GT-A driver gets an overall podium they get bumped. The basic point of the class is for those gentleman drivers that don't really have a hope in getting onto the podium.

-mike

What if you are running 3rd and right at the end, hit the brakes and finish 4th? What if you just finish 4th overall at every race for the whole season? You could possibly outscore the pro champion at the end of the year. It could get real interesting if two GT-A cars were fighting for 3rd overall and one guy throws it away just to get the other one bumped to Pro status. Seems to me that this could be manipulated quite easily.

[PointDSM]

The thing is that everybody knows GT-A isn't a championship that is really worth anything. There is a reason that GT-A and GT are scored in the same class, because it truly is the same class. GT-A is only for the specific drivers, and nothing else.

Mike is doing it right, by ignoring the "finishing trophy" and battling for the real prize.

[ttdriver2009]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

The thing is that everybody knows GT-A isn't a championship that is really worth anything. There is a reason that GT-A and GT are scored in the same class, because it truly is the same class. GT-A is only for the specific drivers, and nothing else.

Mike is doing it right, by ignoring the "finishing trophy" and battling for the real prize.

So, I could enter GT-A and still win GT-P when it comes to a championship? If I get 1000 points at the end of the year yet the best GT-P guy only gets 999, I win the GT-P championship and the GT-A championship? I thought GT-A and GT-P were completely separate classes and had their own points system and championship.