[Tech Issue] The Sound Of The V6 Turbo PU..

[JeremySmith]

I thought I would start this thread so that you can give your opinions as to what you think so far.. I am a little undecided, one minute I think they sound great and then I feel somewhat disappointed..I think its natural to feel this way as I for one am used to hearing the "screaming V8"

Like most things in life it takes time to get used to change, and I have to admit its a BIG change... I am hoping that the sound engineers experiment a little with mic placement for TV broadcasts, I believe this will make a difference..

One thought I had was that as soon as the PU's prove to be more reliable the teams engineers may increase the rev limit? The FIA are saying that these engines are 11 decibels quieter than their predecessors...

A quote from Will Buxton..

"Also I love the sound. Get the microphones placed right on track and you will too. Plus for the first time I don’t have to shout in pit lane"


A quote from Martin Brundle..

I like the sound of the new engines there just not enough of it, turbos strangle it. 'Noses' and 'noise' on the to-do list for 2015 please.

So time for your thoughts, as always please keep it polite..

[bella]

i like them. i mean, it's obviously not a screaming banshee of a wail but if you've spent any length of time trackside with the v8's you'll know they were pretty offensive.

personally, i like my racing cars to sound like angry versions of road cars. i drive a 2 litre turbo petrol car that sounds like it's playing a solo on the bass guitar so these f1 cars are pretty cool to my ear. i'm looking forward to hearing them in person at monaco, that should be a really strange experience!

it could have been worse. one word. gp3

[chillibowl]

the comment about mic placement (thus those parabolic dish things) is an interesting one. if the mics were not optimally placed then was it just a fortunate accident that gave us the chance to hear other on track sounds? that was nice and i think they should keep that aspect if possible.

there was one comment i believe in the race thread where someone who was there said they didnt like it. im hoping to go to Montreal this year so i think that will give me a better sense of what they sound like especially when all the echos and reverb that happens there. i suspect it will still be loud but not deafening.

anyways that got me thinking about how you guys watched the race.

on a TV, a TV with surround sound, computer with computer speakers, tablet with or without headphones, and ultimately at what volume? surely how we watch will have a huge effect on our opinion about the sound.

i had surround sound on my TV and i had the same sense of immersion that i had in prior years so i had no issue with the sound.

[rwintle]

Didn't mind them at all. Very different than the 18,000 RPM screamers of recent years, sure. Loved the upshifts, a real sportscar grunt of sound. Which I like, but I can fully appreciate why other F1 fans might not.

The coolest thing about the Audi R10 TDI LMP1 endurance sportscars when I saw them was how the engine was quiet enough you could hear the chatter of the chassis and suspension over the bumps, and other non-engine noises. I wouldn't want F1 cars to be *that* quiet, but I thought it was cool to be able to hear squealing tires and clattering wastegates (or whatever mechanical gubbins it was) at times during the GP.

[VIVA GT]

I quite like the sound of the new engines, and think they sould more like a low revving, large capacity three cylinder than a V6. To my mind, anything that sounds like an odd number of cylinders is good to me. (Maybe that's an age thing, but I'm thinking Group B Audi Quattro rally car!)
Oddly though, my initial thought when hearing the engines during in-car coverage I thought they sounded like old (late 70's early 80's) racing video game engines! Maybe that was to do with the whine of the electric motors?

[Moneyseeker]

I've read some reports that people who attended said they were louder than appeared on TV and others who said they were very quiet.

On the TV side, I guess the mics were positioned as per last year when the cars were nosier, so maybe learning from this it may be that a rethink on the sound for broadcast is required. Personally, there were some points on the track where I couldn't hear the cars at all over the TV comm.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bella

i like them. i mean, it's obviously not a screaming banshee of a wail but if you've spent any length of time trackside with the v8's you'll know they were pretty offensive.

yes indeed the V8's were deafening in person,The Cosworth nearly tore my head off it was so shrill, but more impressive on TV I suppose. its so subjective don't you think..

I remember a friend of mine at the first Austin race saying that even with "ear plugs" and ear defenders the cars at full tilt through the stadium section it was just way too loud..

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I've read some reports that people who attended said they were louder than appeared on TV and others who said they were very quiet.

On the TV side, I guess the mics were positioned as per last year when the cars were nosier, so maybe learning from this it may be that a rethink on the sound for broadcast is required. Personally, there were some points on the track where I couldn't hear the cars at all over the TV comm.

It's interesting isn't it the difference of opinion from people who were at the race, perceived sound pressure level between two fans being totally different it seems..

[Greem]

My dad came with me to Silverstone last year. One thing he rued afterwards was that the engines were so loud he had to wear ear defenders - which meant he missed a lot of the other noises from the crowd, the circuit commentary and so on. But not wearing them, the engine noise was simply too painful.

It'll be interesting to compare this time round. I get to wear a Peltor comms headset which is pretty well sealed against external noise, and I wonder if I'll be able to turn the volume down in it a little this year and actually be able to hear things around me.

[Born Racer]

A mixed bag so far, but overall I like them. It's a different sound, certainly, whereas the V8 was just a poor man's V10 (listen to clips of the V10 on YouTube and then the V8 back-to-back and you'll probably agree).

At one point during the race, I found the whistling annoying or at least debated with myself if it was annoying.

Hearing the tyres squeak when locking up was a welcome addition. Even hearing the track tannoy sounded cool. (I suspect the people at the circuit also found hearing it useful; I imagine it's easier to hear it now).

As a side note, I like how the different engines sound different: the Ferrari sounds very different from the Mercedes for instance.

I just hope that trackside, it still has that power to wow. I'm taking my girlfriend to her first Grand Prix this year and I want it to be shocking in some way.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Greem

My dad came with me to Silverstone last year. One thing he rued afterwards was that the engines were so loud he had to wear ear defenders - which meant he missed a lot of the other noises from the crowd, the circuit commentary and so on. But not wearing them, the engine noise was simply too painful.

It'll be interesting to compare this time round. I get to wear a Peltor comms headset which is pretty well sealed against external noise, and I wonder if I'll be able to turn the volume down in it a little this year and actually be able to hear things around me.

I think your dad is right, if you have to wear such heavy ear protection then so much is lost and your left in somewhat of a daze because apart from anything else you are standing or sitting at one part of the circuit, and can miss so much anyway..

[TrapezeArtist]

I thought they sounded like a motorbike and when someone mentioned Ducati I had my lightbulb moment. That's it! Anyway, they are racing cars, intended to race, and the sound they make is entirely secondary. It's good that they are less likely to cause hearing damage to team personnel, marshals and spectators and they are a bit less offensive to Joe Public living within earshot of the track.

There seems to have been little mention of revs, so far. Somewhere I saw it said that they are actually using a lot less than the legal max revs of 15,000. However the television last weekend didn't show any revs/gear/g-force graphics so I'm left in the dark. From the sound, I would guess they were revving a lot less than 15k. I also liked being able to hear other sounds, especially the tyres which is a bit more informative than just a continuous banshee scream.

[JeremySmith]

If the 2014 cars sound anything like this in person then I would be thrilled..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-npEh41xiU

[MCWB]

For what it's worth, I think they sounded ok on TV, especially on the onboards. I agree with Will Buxton that they need to work on the mics, but I don't think the sound on TV is much of a problem.

In person, however, they sounded simply dreadful. Kind of like a F3 car, but with a trumpet mute shoved up the exhaust. The V8 Supercars and Porsche Carrera Cup cars were both significantly louder.

I did like not having to wear ear protection (and being able to hear other sounds, as others have already mentioned), but the cars don't sound like they've got anywhere near the grunt and mongrel that they actually do. FWIW the PUs seem very impressive, certainly buckets of torque on tap throughout the rev range.

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

If the 2014 cars sound anything like this in person then I would be thrilled..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-npEh41xiU

I can assure you that they sound absolutely nothing like that.

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I just hope that trackside, it still has that power to wow. I'm taking my girlfriend to her first Grand Prix this year and I want it to be shocking in some way.

My opinion (shared with everyone I talked to at the track) is that they definitely don't. She might be shocked by the V8-engined RB7 demo car, but not by these things in their current form. If you want shocking, take her to see a Top Fuel car at the drags.

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

A quote from Martin Brundle..

I like the sound of the new engines there just not enough of it, turbos strangle it. 'Noses' and 'noise' on the to-do list for 2015 please.

I think Martin has it spot on. Something less ear-bleeding than the V8s or V10s is certainly a welcome change, but on the other hand it would be good if it actually sounded like it had some grunt!

[Teretonga]

I like the 2.65 turbo Indy cars and am happy with the 1600 V6 turbo's. The V8's had no real effect on me, engines rarely have, so the new noise is not something I worry about at all. I don't miss the V8's.

[JeremySmith]

Thanks MCWB it's good to hear what the fans really think..

I have feeling that the SPL problem will be addressed because what I have read so far is that the cars are *simply* not loud enough, translated by some(Including Martin Brundle) as being somewhat tame..

[mikuni]

Last year at the Melbourne Grand Prix I was staying at a friends near the track. We were awoken around 7am (the flight got in early hours hence the sleep in) to the fantastic sound of a screaming F1 car. It was magical, the first time I had ever heard a modern F1 car and the excitement to get to the track was almost too much to bear.

This years cars sound interesting and for me it does hark back to the original turbo era, which is nice, but it just isn't quite special enough. It is not unique enough.

Sound isn't everything and I would agree about the volume not needing to be 135dB and enough to hurt, but it is a very important part of F1. I have been watching every snippet of footage I could since the start of testing (and even the test mules) and while I have been trying to convince myself it is "OK", I find I am still far from convinced.

During the AGP my wife didn't even ask me to turn it down and between the last race in 2013 and the first race of 2014 we have had a baby who was sleeping during the race! That is simply unacceptable...

People say "they need to fix it", "they need to make them louder", "it will be fixed before the end of the season", etc. But what can they do? There is no muffler in there to remove. These are complex PU's and that is just how they sound. It is the nature of energy recovery and the turbocharged engines that don't need the revs to generate power. It reminds me of the old 2 litre WRC cars, low revving heaps of torque but boring.

I still have a vague hope that as the engine builders find efficiencies and better ways to burn the fuel that they might start pushing the revs up to find more power. I understand they don't need to at this point, but to get more power you have more boost or more revs, both introduce potential reliability issues but both will generate more power (if they can do it on the current fuel flow rates). They had a graphic up in practice and I was watching it on slow motion. Some of the engines were pulling 12krpm before changing, but some were only in the 11's. They have a way to go for 15krpm, and I think if they do get up there it might give the solution a lot of people are looking for.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I thought they sounded like a motorbike and when someone mentioned Ducati I had my lightbulb moment. That's it! Anyway, they are racing cars, intended to race, and the sound they make is entirely secondary. It's good that they are less likely to cause hearing damage to team personnel, marshals and spectators and they are a bit less offensive to Joe Public living within earshot of the track.

There seems to have been little mention of revs, so far. Somewhere I saw it said that they are actually using a lot less than the legal max revs of 15,000. However the television last weekend didn't show any revs/gear/g-force graphics so I'm left in the dark. From the sound, I would guess they were revving a lot less than 15k. I also liked being able to hear other sounds, especially the tyres which is a bit more informative than just a continuous banshee scream.

I believe that they were at 12,000 revs

[Adam43]

I like them. The sound of those old V8s was nothing special, just loud. These sound alright, no Merlin, but hey the world is a different place. I'll get my kicks from that elsewhere.

What I particularly like is the variation to the noises. You can hear what is going on, on power, turbo, the more you listen the more you can hear things. An advantage of being a quieter is you can also hear more of the rest of the car. The harshness, lock ups, it is a sound for the thinking man.

[maximus]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

If the 2014 cars sound anything like this in person then I would be thrilled..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-npEh41xiU

I think they do, its probably why I like them, I LOVE the 80's turbos!

[Greem]

Duh. A light came on in my head.

News: the engines are 35% more efficient! More power from less fuel! Massive torque from a teaspoon of petrol!

Er... So more power to the wheels means less being spewed out the back end as sound.

Welcome to the future. Like it, don't like it, looks like F1 is simply the beginning. Eventually all motorsport will sound like this.

[peckstar]

F1 sound comparison from Albert Park

towards the bottom of the article there are some soundbites of the different cars at Albert Park

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by peckstar

F1 sound comparison from Albert Park

towards the bottom of the article there are some soundbites of the different cars at Albert Park

Not a fair comparison in my opinion, as the new PU's strengths are in its variation: comparing them to each other, hearing them into and out of the corners and down pit lane. Just hearing them all scream by of course it doesn't sound fantastic.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Greem

Duh. A light came on in my head.

News: the engines are 35% more efficient! More power from less fuel! Massive torque from a teaspoon of petrol!

Er... So more power to the wheels means less being spewed out the back end as sound.

Welcome to the future. Like it, don't like it, looks like F1 is simply the beginning. Eventually all motorsport will sound like this.

Can't honestly say that I miss my ears bleeding at the end of a GP.
I had expected to miss the screaming F1 cars, but I honestly don't.

I still remain deeply unconvinced by battery KERS as any sort of future technology though.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Adam43

it is a sound for the thinking man.