WTCC General Discussion Thread

[Bramzel]

Like the BTCC Thread this is a thread to discuss the WTCC matters outside of the racing weekends.

[Bramzel]

NIKA Racing just announced on Facebook their 2015 WTCC plans; a 2 car TC1 Honda team lead by Rydell under the flag of Honda Sweden!

Link to source later, I can't copy the link from my phone.

[FIRE]

That's great news.

[thetool]

It'll fall through. Plans announced this early, unless works backed, always seem to.

[I Rosputnik]

url=http://racer.com/latest-stories/item/102771-fia-working-on-wtcc-feeder-series]The FIA is working on a WTCC feeder series[/url]

Curious to see what Alan Gow has planned with the regulations.

[Bramzel]

*Please be NGTC, please be NGTC, please be NGTC*

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

*Please be NGTC, please be NGTC, please be NGTC*

Neil Hudson said yesterday that it will not be NGTC, more like an updated S2000. The unique situation of the BTCC means these "New" regulations won't be applied in the UK. NGTC is apparently BTCC only.

[Rubio]

I wonder how this Honda team Sweden will be treated - not a factory team but not a privete team - something in the middle? And will it be allowed to compete for yokohama Teams trophy (with Rydell non-eligible for sure) like SEAT Sport Italia in 2007?

Anyway, good to see some quality entries. Honda could have signed Rydell as the third factory driver but instead it seems they are trying to save money.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Neil Hudson said yesterday that it will not be NGTC, more like an updated S2000. The unique situation of the BTCC means these "New" regulations won't be applied in the UK. NGTC is apparently BTCC only.

I'm wondering how these new regulations would be used through the rest of the world. Scandinavia currently uses silhouettes and isn't the ADAC Procar moving to different regulations. The ETCC I think would be the best bet for Europe.

(And on another note it appears my link from my previous post no longer works due to a lack of a [ at the front of the url...)

[touring fan01]

i think that website has confused things. story on autosport copied below says new fia touring car regulations for national series is being done.

thats different to eurosport doing a 'wtcc lite' feeder series to run alongside wtcc

FIA working on regulations for national touring car series
By Peter Mills Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 11:30 GMT

The FIA is working on creating new sets of regulations that could be applied to national touring car championships.

The concept has the backing of FIA president Jean Todt, who told media in Marrakech last weekend that the success of the FIA's cultivation of the junior single-seater ladder provides an example of what can be achieved.

FIA touring car commission president and British Touring Car Championship series boss Alan Gow said: "The FIA has stepping stones into Formula 1, through Formula 4 and Formula 3, and this is what we should be doing with touring cars.

"At the moment the only touring regulations that [the FIA] has got is a WTCC regulation.

"Now it is up to the FIA just to come up with one or two sets of regulations that are applicable for national championships around the world.

"The WTCC regulations are only designed for the WTCC. They are not regulations designed for other major national championships, so it is different to how it was in the S2000 days.

"It is naive to think you could have one set of regulations that the whole world will compete with. That doesn't work.

"We will look at setting a couple of other regulations, which countries can choose to implement if they wish.

"I would hope we have something to put to the world council at the end of the year, so it's a fairly short timeframe."

WTCC EYES FEEDER CATEGORY

WTCC promoter Eurosport is also evaluating a revamped set of TC2 regulations as an option for a new WTCC feeder series.

"As soon as the new TC2 technical regulations are set, then we would run a separate championship as part of WTCC weekends," said Eurosport Events manager Francois Ribeiro.

"It may not be the entire championship, as GP2 doesn't follow the entire Formula 1 calendar.

"We would run it separately from the TC1 grid as part of the WTCC weekend, then we would promote it."

The championship is not intended for manufacturers. Cars close to production-based models and modified versions of the existing TC2 machinery are being considered.

"There are many options, but it has to be something that is touring car related and which is extremely cost-efficient," said Ribeiro.

"The season should be maximum 300,000 Euros, and with exactly the same sporting regulations as WTCC, so that drivers can learn."

[Rubio]

Great plan to have a serious feeder series, think it will be based on ETCC and run instead of it. WTCC definitely needs some new talented young drivers who may learn, as Tarquini is 52, many guys are in their 40s and can't race forever

[mikuni]

It seems crazy to me, and totally detached from logic that immediately after the FIA introduce the TC1 regulations, they then introduce yet another set of varied regulations. I can't help but think that looking into the past is a good way of planning for the future. Granted super touring died an expensive death, but the Class 2 regulations had merit and saw the most manufacturers ever in touring car racing.

I think the "global" FIA engine was a good move to limit future costs, but so far only 1 manufacturer has actually crossed over from WRC to WTCC and the engine spec is not being picked up by any other series.

In my opinion, what super touring proved, is that the formula doesn't have to be rediculously complex to succeed. The earlier years were just a road car set up as a racer with no aero. If some standardised suspension components were used with subframes the teams must use it would help introduce some level of parity and keep costs to a minimum. The cars don't need stupid aero, wide guards, or any of those other gimmicky bells and whistles. Just a simple touring car that can be build to go quick without massive cost, and that provides great racing.

It can't be that hard, surely?

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by mikuni

I think the "global" FIA engine was a good move to limit future costs, but so far only 1 manufacturer has actually crossed over from WRC to WTCC and the engine spec is not being picked up by any other series.

Both the Citroën and Ford engines were based of the WRC engines. They had to be reworked extensively, but still. And the other way around the BMW lump was the base for the Mini WRC engine if I'm not mistaken.

In my opinion, what super touring proved, is that the formula doesn't have to be rediculously complex to succeed. The earlier years were just a road car set up as a racer with no aero. If some standardised suspension components were used with subframes the teams must use it would help introduce some level of parity and keep costs to a minimum. The cars don't need stupid aero, wide guards, or any of those other gimmicky bells and whistles. Just a simple touring car that can be build to go quick without massive cost, and that provides great racing.

It can't be that hard, surely?

What worked in the nineties doesn't necessarily work anymore now. The expectations from the viewers have changed, big wings and bodykits are expected. What you're describing would appeal to the hard-core fans who still remember the good ole nineties, but wouldn't work in todays marketing.

[MikeD]

I guess the rest of you also heard the very reliable rumours during the Marrakech weekend, that FIA and WTCC are in talks with 2 new manufacturers joining the series from next year. It's expected that Alfa Romeo will re-join the series (yeah!) and that KIA will enter aswell. KIA is 1/3 owned by Hyundai who is competing in the WRC in their first year. They have one podium to their name in the first 4 WRC rounds

[Moneyseeker]

I think there is scope to create sub 'touring' car level which could be along the old UK national saloons formula which was in effect group N (as it was in those days), running on slick tyres but with no aero or wings, so looking as production spec externally.

[Go_For_Pole]

But there is no GroupN anymore, not in name, not in ethos, is it? And besides the problem always with GroupN is that there is always one car that is "born" more suitable for racing than others

[Speed-King]

Well, there is, but it's on the other side of the world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WuU738tnjI

Also, there are still the V-classes in VLN, which are essentially Gr.N as well. Oh and IMSA Conti Challenge.

Interesting that you guys bring up Gr.N, though... the lack of that is something I have been thinking about quite a bit lately.

[Bramzel]

Gr.N would be a good feeder, it works in WRC as well.

[Go_For_Pole]

Used to work. There is no GrN anymore, that was my earlier argument. The logic moved to kits, even mild ones, to remove weakness more or less and add reliability

[Bramzel]

Ah, I thought they still ran the GroupN Impreza's and Evo's. I guess they're looking at WRC's WRC2 regulations then?

[Go_For_Pole]

There are still some but almost no new N4s are homologated. Effectively WRC2 has taken their place. However, for our discussion I was thinking something more along the lines of R1/R2s, i.e. production cars + relatively affordable factory homologated kits

[FIRE]

If it's really a feeder series why not something like "GT4"? So a performance balanced series for 1.6L or 2L (turbo) FWD cars.

[Metzo]

why not create a "wtcc light" for the 2011-13 turbos?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Metzo

why not create a "wtcc light" for the 2011-13 turbos?

Don't we already have that with the ETCC? And then, those cars are still stupidly expensive to run and they are not getting any newer.

Given the success of GT3, I am actually surprised no one in Europe has tried the BoP-touring car formula yet....

[Metzo]

there are only 5-6 turbos in the etcc and i dont like multiclass touring car series.

give it tv coverage and some prize money and it would be a lot more interessting for teams to join. i understand that a lot of teams dont want to race in the tc2 class in wtcc as its too expensive and nobdy really cares about the class as they are 6-8 seconds slower than tc1.