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Old 24 Dec 2013, 19:41 (Ref:3347662)   #26
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Hey, have you ever counted how many times we've been replying such arguments ?

I will consider that the forum should have some kind of feature as "standard reply" button.
Like a scratched record mate
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 20:10 (Ref:3347670)   #27
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Originally Posted by Bononi View Post
I guess this is all about we can say about 2013.


Hopefully nobody will start a thread "Your top 10 teams of 2013"...
I am going to. It's because you can still rate a team by the best they did with what they had. So the old "punching above their weight" point can mean a team can finish above one that finished higher in the championship.

I can tell you now, for me Red Bull are my number 1.
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 20:13 (Ref:3347672)   #28
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So the old "punching above their weight" point can mean a team can finish above one that finished higher in the championship.

I can tell you now, for me Red Bull are my number 1.
This is great ! Even Murray Walker would be proud of a comment like that
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 20:41 (Ref:3347679)   #29
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I am going to. It's because you can still rate a team by the best they did with what they had. So the old "punching above their weight" point can mean a team can finish above one that finished higher in the championship.

I can tell you now, for me Red Bull are my number 1.
Why I am not surprised ?

Go ahead, make it eleven, so no one will be out of the box... and maybe an option for none of the above
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 21:48 (Ref:3347687)   #30
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We all know this thread was started merely to bait the non-Vettel supporters. I think on that score it has failed.

I suggest everyone who sees this thread lists Vettel at the top, followed by whoever they want, their Gran and other family members if they wish, then the thread can be closed :-)


Happy Christmas by the way.
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 23:03 (Ref:3347694)   #31
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It is started every year. Usually by me for god's sake.
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 23:26 (Ref:3347697)   #32
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Originally Posted by MarkG View Post
We all know this thread was started merely to bait the non-Vettel supporters. I think on that score it has failed.

I suggest everyone who sees this thread lists Vettel at the top, followed by whoever they want, their Gran and other family members if they wish, then the thread can be closed :-)


Happy Christmas by the way.
So you're telling us that the OP is a troll.
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 23:45 (Ref:3347702)   #33
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So you're telling us that the OP is a troll.
No, not at all, why do you think that? Just thought it was for a bit of baiting fun. Oh well, ho hum.
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 02:26 (Ref:3347721)   #34
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We all know this thread was started merely to bait the non-Vettel supporters. I think on that score it has failed.

I didn't know that and I started it. That's rubbish and actually an irritating accusation. We have one of these every year I think. Autosport compiles a similar list and so do many places. It's a way to round off the season and put our own perspectives out there.

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Happy Christmas by the way.

You too.
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 02:32 (Ref:3347722)   #35
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Originally Posted by Bononi View Post
Why I am not surprised ?

Go ahead, make it eleven, so no one will be out of the box... and maybe an option for none of the above
Because you know I like ranking things.

I'm glad I don't have a speech impediment or that can come out all wrong (pun spotted at the last moment).
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 09:49 (Ref:3347739)   #36
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It's Mr Aysedasi I'm concerned about.
Oh, no argument from me.

I find the analyses quite interesting and I see a degree of 'reputation before performance' in some of the listings. Aside from Raikkonen being too high in many and Maldonado not being at the bottom in them all, I tend to......... not really care very much!
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 11:47 (Ref:3347772)   #37
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 15:03 (Ref:3347804)   #38
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1. Grosjean

I know this is surprising. I haven't forgotten his mediocre first part of the season, but look at what a progress he made compared to last year. And in the second half of the year, I rate him clearly as the best driver. Grosjean was the only one who consistently challenged Vettel, and that in a Lotus! He was able to challenge Vettel, who had a superior car perfectly matching his driving style.

2. Vettel

I admit, winning nine races in a row is impressive. But doing so in a Red Bull? Not so. He easily had the best car, and Webber seemed increasingly unmotivated. So he didn't really have any opposition in the second half of the year. With more reliable cars, drivers like Mansell in 1992 or Schumacher in 2002/2004 could easily have done the same things Vettel did this year.

But still, I must say that I'm impressed with his performance, especially in Singapore. And although he had the best car, I think he deserves his titles. Success in Formula 1 is always a combination of the driver and the team.

I appreciate that Vettel has done extremely well this year, but I don't think he is as extraordinary as Red Bulls PR department wants us to believe.

3. Hülkenberg
Apart from Grosjean, Hülkenberg was the positive surprise of the year. His drive at Korea was extraordinary, probably one of the most memorable moments of a rather boring season. But overall, he had a great second half of the season. He definitely deserves a seat at a top team. I hope for him that the Force India turns out to be a good car for 2014.

4. Alonso
He did well this year, but not as well as in 2013. He often outpperformed his car. But towards the end of the year, I had the impression that he became more and more frustrated with the inability of Ferrari to keep up with Red Bull or even Mercedes.

5. Hamilton
When he announced his move to Mercedes, I thought he had made a big mistake. As it turned out, he had not. For the first time, the Mercedes was competetive in the race too. Hamilton had some great races, most notably winning at Hungaroring.

6. Räikkönen
After his win at the opening race, he did some good races, but nothing special. Still a good year for him.

7. Rosberg
I always thought Rosberg was a bit underrated. 2013 confirmed that, as he was able to keep up with Hamilton.

8. Bianchi
He joined the team as a last-minute replacement for Luis Razia, but from the first pracitce, he was competetive. He secured 10th place in the championship for his team, and consitently outperformed Chilton (who, I think, is not as bad as many people say.)

9. Ricciardo
He was the better of the Toro Rosso drivers. Especially in qualifying, he sometimes impressed me. But does he deserve the promotion to Red Bull? I don't think so, especially when there are so many other midfield drivers around, who did better. But Red Bull had to prove that their junior program makes sense, and I think that is one reason why they promoted Ricciardo.

10. Bottas
He consitently beat Maldonado. And Maldonado is a race winner after all. Maldonado seemed to lose his motivation in the dreadfully slow Williams. Bottas didn't, and was rewarded with an 8th place after a great drive at Austin.
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 15:28 (Ref:3347808)   #39
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Pontlieue, no surprise from me that you have Grosjean at the top, well deserved. Alonso deserves higher on ability, but 4th is maybe fair for his lesser application later in 2013, which is pretty understandable really.

The latter part of 2013 skews everything really, because of the majestic performances of Vettel/Red Bull, and a sense that PR worked in Vettel's favour globally. His personality in front of camera and in interviews definitely helped him there, and made people forget other stuff.

The first half of 2013, if continued throughout the year, ie, no dominant car wrapping everything up with ease, would have created a different top 10 I feel.
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 17:08 (Ref:3347821)   #40
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I would also have Grosjean certainly in my top 3. Why? Because it's my choice.
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