Heidfeld and Sauber should dtop complaining!!

[steve nielsen]

see the way Heidfeld is trying to ram Jos into the barriers here??, why where they complaining about Jos's drivingstyle?, Nick tried to ram Jos. Did Nick simply "forget" about this now??, he should'nt complain, if he would have driven more carefully he would have made it further than Portier......

[enemy-ace]

I don't really see how you can gather all that info from the posted photograph. From what I see, it looks like Heidfeld could be the meat in an Arrows sandwich, but one single snippet of a moment in time is not enough to draw any kind of conclusion on what happened. Show the video (of the entire battle if possible) and then maybe some accurate conclusions can be reached.

Following quote from Speedvision.com

Jos Verstappen (eighth): "I'm really annoyed that we stalled in the pit stop. I was having a great time, as I passed about five cars fair and square during the early part of the race, which is very difficult here, and the car was feeling very good. It's a real shame, as we should have been on for some points today."

What I find funny (strange & humourous) about the preceding quote, is Verstappens need to justify his overtaking maneuvers with "fair and square". It would almost seem to imply that maybe they weren't. Now don't go thinking that I'm anti-Verstappen or anything, these are just observations

[steve nielsen]

Well, Jos said this to a dutch newspaper:

"Heidfeld tried to ram me into the barriers, you should'nt try that with me"

[Tristan]

Q: What's the steering lock like on the Sauber??

A: WE HAVE NO IDEA!

Q: Why is Jos on the outside?? Who'd tried to pass who??

A: WE HAVE NO IDEA!

Q: Did Jos **** into the back of the Sauber a matter of seconds later??

A: YES!!

[Dino IV]

Jos said on the well known F1-site 'itwasntme.com' that it was impossible to avoid Heidfeld and that he braked 30 metres earlier and was some 60 kmh slower at that point than all his other laps. Don't pin me down on it, just heard it from a friend of mine.

[steve nielsen]

Jos did'nt drive into the back of Heidfeld, Heidfeld drove over Jos's front wheel with his rear wheel.......

[Dino IV]

... which is quite inevitable when that left front wheel is aiming for your sidepod and the wall is a few inches to your left ...

[steve nielsen]

Like I said, If Nick had given a litle more space on the loews corner(you can clearly see him steering straight past the racing line on the picture), than he would have made it further than Portier: the only thing would have been that he maybe would have been 1 place behind Jos, so I can only say: It's Nick's own fault!!

Heidfelds sudden case of amnesia is also very funny:

"I was hit by one of the Arrows, I don't know wich"(just after the race, I think he knew exactly wich Arrows it was, because he hit that Arrows too)

[Valve Bounce]

Great Pic, Steve. Now can somebody refresh my memory, with a pic also, of the TGF/Wurz incident, because this is where it started also.

[mac]

I don't think it was a case of whose fault it was. From the posted picture, it simply looks as if Heidfeld has tried to pass Jos, and has simply understeered to the outside of the track (maybe carrying too much speed). Let's not castigate Heidfeld for attempting a pass, as we don't see much actual racing happening these days (especially at Monaco). It was a racing incident. However, if Heidfeld is blaming Jos, then he has massive problems.

PS. I would have loved to have seen Verstappen's charge through the field (we saw it on the racescore), however, the TV directors decided we had to see the tiresome battle for 15th (Bernoldi and DC).

[steve nielsen]

Well, it was Jos trying to pass on the outside actualy, but what I'm saying is that Nick and Peter Sauber where angry at the Arrows team for taking him out of the race, as you can see on this picture, Heidfeld first tried to do the same with Jos.....

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm.

VB said it really. There is no way to get two cars round there unless they are going to pirouette in unison. With TC they couldn't induce oversteer to tighten the turning circle and even if it was switched off they'd need to co-operate.

Other victims of this scenario include D Hill (Gerhard Berger), Alain Prost (can't remember by whom).

Maybe we could set up a thread entitled "Who nerfed who at Leows?"

[DNQ]

From that picture, I see Heidfeld doing nothing wrong. He is allowed to overtake/defend his position, and I'd imagine that is what he is doing.

[Wrex]

Steve "Lover of all things Jos" Nielsen, your one-eyed unshakable (despite the evidence) support for Jos is overwhelming, if not commendable. You are the biggist fan of any driver in this forum (sorry MF).

Jos could driver straight into someone and you would find a way of making it someone else's fault. Oh, hang on, you did that already with Brazil did'nt you.

If I were as big a TGF fan as you are Jos, I could confidently blame Hill and Jacques for smashing into him in their perspective last races for each season.

[angst]

I think that the picture shows everything. If it's Verstappen trying to get passed Heidfeld then it looks very much like Heidfeld squeezing Verstappen out (if he had that bad understeer then I doubt yery much he could have set a time within the 107 per cent rule). That to my mind is unsporting and not racing. I think Nick would do well to remember the whole incident and learn what he can from it. - ie if you're going to dish it out, then you should expect it back.

[enemy-ace]

If you see a picture of someone with they're eyes closed, are they blinking or are they sleeping? Hypothetically, how do you know that Bernoldi didn't just give Heidfeld a nudge prior to the photo? A picture tells a thousand stories and asks a thousand questions! The photo is inconclusive, and shouldn't be used as evidence!

[Peter Mallett]

How did they all miss that big red arrow?

[angst]

For Heidfeld to have been nudged that far off line would have taken quite an impact, Bernoldi would have suffered damage to the front of his car. Why didn't Heidfeld mention it?

[Peter Mallett]

Yes but that big re..... oh what's the use?

[Marshal]

It made me chuckle mr M, if that makes you feel better. In fact it's nearly as funny as Steve blaming Heidfeld for getting shoved into the barriers by Vercrashen.....

[Liz]

Well, what's a man supposed to do when they let other cars on his race track? Serves Jos right for being on that track at all, I say.

Nick, get over it. And as for Jos' "You don't try that on me" comment, someone should remind him that the game here is called racing not Bumper Cars .

[Minardi fan]

Originally posted by Wrex
You are the biggist fan of any driver in this forum (sorry MF).

Hmmmm Steve and Mr. Verstappen or Minardi fan and Mr. Raikkonen... tough call...

[enemy-ace]

Originally posted by angst
For Heidfeld to have been nudged that far off line would have taken quite an impact, Bernoldi would have suffered damage to the front of his car. Why didn't Heidfeld mention it?

I'm afraid you might have missed the entire point of my post. I never claimed that Bernoldi tagged Heidfeld, thats why I said "Hypothetically"! My point was that any number of people can come to different conclusions as to what is occuring in any single photo. Therefore it is pointless to base your argument on such inconclusive evidence.
ie. looking at Bernoldi's positioning in the corner, I might come to the conclusion that he prefers to turn in very late on the exit of corners as opposed to the entry. This however might explain his less than stellar lap times

[Dino IV]

Two things I'd like to bring forward on a more serious note than Steve's Jos=God-PoV.

Firstly remember this is Loews the tightest corner of them all in F1. In fact that tight that the teams have to adjust the front suspensions to increase the steering angle sufficiently to get round this corner, even when a driver is going through on his own. So whenever they steered in, it's full steering lock from then onwards till the exit. So when Jos is charging on the outside there and would like to go side by side there isn't much room on the exit, not intentionally but by the nature of this corner and the cars involved.

Secondly Jos put Nick into the wall in the next right-hand corner (Poitiers). Considering both using traction control and Jos still backwards of Nick here, Jos must have torpedoed his front left wheel at Nick's sidepod in a very insane action. No wonder Nick never knew what hit him. That's not even a do-or-die action, that's a die-for-at-least-one-and-the-other-just-maybe-lucky-to-escape action.

Peter Sauber isn't really known for his southern temperament, so when he's acting really upset, he surely has reason to be. And I believe he certainly has in this case.

[Liz]

Although, like everyone else on the grid, he blamed Bernoldi