Calling all karters!!

[tater]

Hi all, basically awhile back i had a go at indoor karting and found it very fun, im actually racing motocross at the moment but i feel that i no longer want to continue. Does anyone know any good sites that can give a real insight into karting, like classes, and costs, etc. as i know nothing about it!!!

I would be greatful of any info or web sites to clubs etc

edit: sorry forgot to say i am 20 years old if that helps

Thanks Andy

[crozier74]

Welcome to the world of karting tater

The best site to check out would be www.karting.co.uk.

As for classes, I guess as with most rookies you're faced with a distinct 2-way choice - Formula Rotax 125 Max, or Formula TKM. You'll find a lot of banter goes about on this subject, it's the typical "my class is better than your class" thing They seem to be pretty much directly opposed in most aspects. Obviously, being a TKM man, I'm gonna be slightly biased, but here's my basic take on the classes:

TKM - Close racing, relatively cheap class. Relatively hard tyres, last a while (bout 3-6 meetings, about 10 at a push), although obviously the rich kids will buy them quite regularly, but there's not a huge amount to be gained by it. Engines aren't sealed, but there's not much you can do with the engines anyway, so it seems to be every bit as fair (if not more so) than the sealed classes. One of only a few classes in the UK still left with push starts (lift the back end, run along and drop it), which seems a bit dinosaurial, and I'm one of those harking on for change, but I suppose it's main plus point is that it keeps you fit and (for the nostalgiaists) is the last reminder of the "good old days, when racers were real men" Optional clutch with outboard starter, but these aren't too popular, but is generally considered a good move for novices (we used it back in our early days).

Rotax - Much quicker than TKM, bout 2-3 seconds a lap. Clutch and push button onoboard starter (the big plus point). But generally seems higher costs. Engines can last longer (bout 25 hours tops), but a lot of people rebuild them in similar time to TKMs to keep up performance. But engines are sealed, so you don't get the same mechanical experience fiddling with them. Soft tyres, go through them at a fast rate - bout one meeting to a set (3-4 at a push), and high grip levels are criticised for making it not as much of a "driver's class" (although I find this debatable - a good driver is a good driver in any class, but it's certainly different). Has been criticised for being a rough class, filled with rich middle aged men, but to be honest, TKM is getting nearly as rough nowadays, but for the younger feistier generation "Rubbin is racin'" as they say

Up to you which to go with, hopefully I've shown you that there's good points to both

Can I just ask you one more question - what town in the Midlands are you in? So I can give you advice on your local tracks.

[BillyT]

It also depends what sort of budget you have, if its relativly tight try www.club100.co.uk its arrive and drive TKM, cheaper than running your own kart in the long run. You just turn up and drive. There are a number of differnt championships, like Endurance or Sprints(which i do). And with 2 weight categories and everyone in the same equipment the racing is very close with driver ability really showing through.

it is also good because there are people of all ages competing from 16-60. No license is required either, they can also supply you with helmet and overalls if you want.

EDIT: As you say you don't know much about karting it will at least give you a taster of outdoor 2 stroke racing.

[luke]

I would reconmend TKM 4 stroke in Formula 6, then move up to Super one, who know's that's my plan anyways.
But a TKM 4 stroke would be good as you can race them in many different championships.
But it tends to be very popular with quite large grids so it would be good to get quite a lot of practice in with the kart so you can get competitve before hand.

[tater]

Thanks all! thanks for the information, been looking, also been looking on ebay for prices but till i know what class i don't know what to look for!

I live in a town called Nuneaton about 20miles from Birmingham if that helps!

i have a car and trailer so got transport, and should have about £2500

How often do you need to rebuild the engines for theses 2 series?

What kind of price is a re-build?

Are there any things to avoid karting wise like certain manufacturers or parts etc?

i could afford about £2500 all in, i think the cheaper the better!

Thanks again

[crozier74]

Cheers, that helps. Hey, you're very handily located - you're near some very good tracks! All 4 of these are of national standard, and all get big grids:

Whilton Mill, nr Northampton, Northants - ~30 miles
Shenington, nr Banbury, Oxon - ~30 miles
Kimbolton, nr Huntingdon, Cambs - ~50 miles
Little Rissington, nr Cheltenham, Gloucs - ~50 miles

A second hand kart and all the gear needed to go racing = ~£1k.

Engine rebuild = Usually <£400, although you can do it yourself in a non-sealed class if you have the kit to do it. Forgot to mention - typical rebuild interval for a TKM is about 9 hours for us (manufaturer says "8–20 hours depending on usage"). TKM 4/ which Luke mentions is about (again according to the manufacturer, which is usually an optimistic figure) 50-100 hours. And you don't have to pay squat for the Club 100 rebuilds.

Typical costs for a year's club racing at any of the above 4 clubs = ~£1.5-3k - Depends, this is a grey area, and depends largely on what you want to do. I'm basing this on simple maths that over 3 years racing we have spent £7k for a season of 20 races of club racing in Scotland each time, then that went up to £10k for a season of S1 (the British national champs). Half that for a season of 10 races (typical for most clubs) and you get £3.5k. However, as we're in the middle of nowhere karting-wise, a lot of our costs go on travelling, so if you're racing locally then I took £500 which brings you to the higher estimate of £3k above. However, the other way of looking at it is that a typical weekend costs about £100-200, so if you simply times that by your 10 races you get something around £1.5k, so I'd make that my lower estimate. Also, accomodation is a big factor - if you can sleep in the back of the car instead of forking out for hotel rooms, do it!

There's not really anything to avoid, but generally the newer the better - wouldn't go much older than 5 year old kit at a push. However, people would make you believe there are definitely "chassis to have" in each class, where one is much more common than the others - eg. Venom in Senior TKM, JKH in Junior TKM, etc., and it helps psychologically knowing you're on the same kit as everyone else, but it's far from the be-all-and-end-all - a lot of drivers go quickly on unpopular/uncommon chassis, it's up to the driver and what he feels comfortable with - my favourite chassis to date is a Wright Braga, and I was about one of only half a dozen people in the UK to run one!

Luke, don't mean to shoot you down or anything, but IMO your comment about "you can race them in many different championships" ain't quite accurate. AFAIK - F6, S1, Bayford and Sandown? Not much really is it? Certainly not as much as their 2/ counterparts or Rotax. And most of those 4 are in the South East, which (we now know, but you didn't have the info to hand when you posted) is a bit far away from our man.

Hmm, BT, good point. I was coming at it from the angle of trying to get him into MSA official racing, as I've never really considered anything else to be "proper" racing. However, I can see your point about maybe doing year in Club 100 at low cost before taking the plunge and stepping up to MSA level, it's certainly a nice step-up between corporate karting and racing.

Top tip is to go along to a club meeting at any of the above clubs and see what it's all about, check out the different chassis, speak to the drivers, etc. They'll be happy to help a prospective newcomer!

[tater]

Thank you for being so helpful, shame you dont live near me and i could come and watch you race. I just needed to get my head around costs and events etc and im getting there!

I would like to join the MSA as it sounds good, Thanks for all your advice people, i kile the sound of TKM 2 stroke and rotax. I perfer the sound of rotax but the sealed engine sounds abit expensive and i like to know how my motor is running and to understand it.

As with motocross it costs £100ish for licence, £25 club, £15 per meeting, fuel etc, but the bike cost me about £3000. Karting doesn't sound like it costs much more.

I might try the 100club first to see how it is but im keen to own my own equipment its just how i am.

Just wondered, i saw on a website that an MSA race meeting would cost £200! could you brake down the costs for me so i could see where it goes please, sounds like alot?

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Hi Tater,

I can speak from experience (although not my own) of motorcross vs. karting. I come from a family of bike racers and have a lot of friends who race motorcross, roadrace and karts, and friends who have chopped and changed between them.

Can I just ask you first what bike have you been running in your motorcross meetings?




Ok, classes:
-------

Right, Rotax - I'm sure you're familiar with the Aprilia 125 motorcross engines, well basically the engine is the head & barrel of one of those with a different bottom end. No gearbox, a centrifugal clutch, electric start (hmm) and a balancer shaft driven by nylon gears. They're allright if you just want to drive, but you can't touch the engine. Plug jetting and final gearing are the only things you can change. They're sealed at the head & barrel so they know if you try to take it to peices. So if you opt for Rotax, you can kiss goodbye to doing your own repairs, you must pay.

-------

TKM, basically everything's been said about that already. However I myself am not a great fan of it. However you can do all your engine work in this class, there's not usually any trouble with popping the head off at a meeting. Pistons are around £40 and last 4-6 meetings, conrods last about a year.
-------

To be honest it depends on what you want out of your karting. Do you just want a run around or do you want something with a good kick to it?
It all depends on what you want really, because in this country they've really ****ed up karting by making more and more classes year upon year.


I've found over the years that karting is slightly more expensive than motorcross.

Licences are about £60, same-ish for club membership, club meeting entires are around £30-40, fuel can vary anything between £10 and £60 for a meeting. There are some good deals to be had with karts though, I keep hearing stories of people buying a year old kart for £200 or £300, something like that.

For a meeting - tyres £130
- entry £35
- Fuel £20
- damage averages at around a tenner or £20.


If I were you I'd definatly go for the club100 option first, just to see wether you really do like it that much



Alex

[yelodwg]

Tater,

A few other sites to check out:

Our site, www.kartfinder.com, which lists UK chassis/engines and of course all the others from around the world.

I like www.kartlink.com for karting news.

And www.kartingmagazine.com

And mostly, go to your local tracks and ask lots of questions before buying.

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com

[crozier74]

I might not live near you, but chances are I'll be down for a few meetings down your way later in the season:

Gold Cup @ Three Sisters, Wigan, 25-26 Jun
Kartmasters GP @ PFi, Newark, 6-7 Aug
TKM Festival @ Kimbolton, 13-14 Aug
Super 1 Rd 6 @ Whilton Mill, 1-2 Oct

Maybe see you at some of those, just look for the roughly-shaven bespectacled guy in the silver suit Senior TKM 74

Yeah, that's about right. Like I said in my last post "a typical weekend costs about £100-200". Our cheapest has been £80 (just turned up for the Sunday at a club meeting at Crail 80 miles away), and the most expensive was £1k (almost a full week away to S1 @ Buckmore in Kent, 530 miles away ). But a rough breakdown of an average meeting is this (seems breakdowns of costs are very important in karting IMO)...

Travel costs - £30
Saturday practice fee - £15
Entry fee - £40
Fuel - £20
Damage/consumables - £15
Food, etc. - £20
Total - £140

Depends if you want to buy a new set of tyres every meeting like Alex includes in his, don't think it's really necessary for a newbie.

Like Alex, I'm beginning to come round to the idea that you should maybe try Club 100 for a year, and go along to your local clubs to spectate at the races and eye up your options for the following year.

[#15 tkm 4/]

TKM, basically everything's been said about that already. However I myself am not a great fan of it. However you can do all your engine work in this class, there's not usually any trouble with popping the head off at a meeting. Pistons are around £40 and last 4-6 meetings, conrods last about a year.

Theres also the 4stroke version of that (which i race) which is faster, has longer hours between rebuilds (about 60ish), electric start (so you dont have to chase the damn thing down the straight!) Urmmmm any chassi is allowed.

Also the prices very from race meeting to race meeting, as does the standards of driving, so one meeting might be good driving and no cost nexxt be poor driving with lots of costs?

Also depends if you want to do, club meeting or national champs or even european! (this is for when you get exp)

[BillyT]

Originally Posted by #15 tkm 4/

electric start (so you dont have to chase the damn thing down the straight!)

Thats part of the fun

Mate I think you should have a club100 test day just to get to grips with 2 stroke racing, if corparate is the only other thing you've done. www.club100.co.uk for test days and places.

[speedy king]

Also pretty fun seeing a Snr TKM'er at kimbolton on sunday frantically trying to push start his kart after being knocked off at turn one and every time he jumped back in the thing stalled, tried about 3 times and then kicked it in the side before giving up and dragging the kart off the track as the leaders approached turn one, he then tripped over and fell over the kart as they came round the corner, pulled it out just in time!

I love my clutch and start button!

[tater]

Thanks everybody!!!


Alex Hodgkinson

Quote ''Can I just ask you first what bike have you been running in your motorcross meetings?''

At the moment mate im racing a 2004 suzuki rmz 250, which is a four stroke to all others that dont know about motocross! doesn't need constant rebulids but oil and filter regularly, and checking the valve clearances!!!!

thanks for all the break downs of costs just needed to see were it was all going!!

You all have been very helpful, think i will try and go to one of the meetings and i will look out for you lot. Also im going to get some mates together and try this club100, try and get them into it too.

[luke]

I forgot to say good luck to tater with karting what you chose to do.