Radical SR9 LMP2

**John Turner** · 10 Nov 2006, 13:13 (Ref:1762715)

Thought you might like to see a few shots of this car taken at the Walter Hayes Trophy meeting last Sunday. Martin Short brought it out for one of the support races, called The Secretary's Challenge which catered for an eclectic mix of historic and modern sports cars and saloons. I understand that this was the first race for this car and I guess Short was using it as a bit of a shakedown. He and the other two quickest cars, seen below, gave themselves a handicap by starting from the pitlane and about a lap down. Short nevertheless, and unsurprisingly, won comfortably:-

Earl Goddard was out in the Reynard LMP900 and started at the same time as Short and came 2nd although he could not match the pace of the new Radical:-

David Leslie was the other who started from the pitlane, albeit a bit earlier then the other two, in the Radical SR8 but later pulled into the pits to retire.

**Bentley03** · 10 Nov 2006, 13:23 (Ref:1762728)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

I understand that this was the first race for this car and I guess Short was using it as a bit of a shakedown.

So presumably Shorty now has two complete cars to sell instead of one and a half.

Very nice pics, thanks for posting!

**John Turner** · 10 Nov 2006, 20:43 (Ref:1762958)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

I understand that this was the first race for this car and I guess Short was using it as a bit of a shakedown.

I think that I should have said the first race win, although it has to be conceded that the opposition waas negligible.

**Bentley03** · 10 Nov 2006, 20:55 (Ref:1762964)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

I think that I should have said the first race win, although it has to be conceded that the opposition waas negligible.

That makes far more sense, John. I had understood the car was in 'kit' form as recently as a week ago, so your statement was a bit of a shock!

MulsanneMike · 11 Nov 2006, 03:00 (Ref:1763173)

Perhaps he's a motivated seller?

**John Turner** · 11 Nov 2006, 09:36 (Ref:1763304)

Sorry to have confused you, guys. Confused myself even more though!

MikeHoyer · 13 Nov 2006, 10:32 (Ref:1764787)

Nice photos John. It was good to see these cars in action round a little track like that!

AstonGeoff · 14 Nov 2006, 10:43 (Ref:1765752)

A few more pics;-

Shortie gets his trophy alongside Earl Goddard and Frank Sytner
http://groups.msn.com/DoughtyPics/wh...o&PhotoID=1089

Hey look I got two!
http://groups.msn.com/DoughtyPics/wh...o&PhotoID=1091

1st 2nd and 3rd
http://groups.msn.com/DoughtyPics/wh...o&PhotoID=1094

Shortie discusses tactics with Damon Hill???
http://groups.msn.com/DoughtyPics/wh...o&PhotoID=1093

The Badger · 14 Nov 2006, 11:21 (Ref:1765795)

Whose the dude standing beside Shortie in the last pic ..... i wouldnt let a bum like that drive my car !!!

**Bentley03** · 20 Nov 2006, 10:00 (Ref:1770433)

Very interesting Radical article on DSC.

Radical have been working in the (MIRA) windtunnel with a full-size SR9 in order to evaluate the current car (which has previously never been anywhere near a windtunnel), and to find areas where improvements can be made for the 2007 version of the car.

The results confirmed (according to Tim Greaves) just how good the original design was. But what really fascinated me was the fact that ".....with development parts, we were able to increase the level of downforce by 25% without any increase in drag.“

Now, my knowledge and understanding of the more technical aspects of racing car design is limited (to say the least!), but that figure sounds extraordinary. If there was one conclusion I drew from the many hours I spent watching the cars at Tertre Rouge this year, it was that the two prototypes which handled the corner with the least drama were the Audi R10's and the Rollcentre Radical. Both took the corner as if they were running on rails. There are of course many elements to the design and setup of a car, but I had assumed that what set these two apart was due in no small way to the bucketloads of downforce these cars were producing.

So, I'm now asking myself if, with a 25% gain in downforce without any increase in drag, Radical have found the missing ingredient which set the RS Spyder apart from 'the rest of the pack' in 2006?

(I thought I'd change the direction of this existing thread rather than start a new one)

andy97 · 7 Dec 2006, 15:25 (Ref:1784216)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Very interesting Radical article on DSC.

Radical have been working in the (MIRA) windtunnel with a full-size SR9 in order to evaluate the current car (which has previously never been anywhere near a windtunnel), and to find areas where improvements can be made for the 2007 version of the car.

The results confirmed (according to Tim Greaves) just how good the original design was. But what really fascinated me was the fact that ".....with development parts, we were able to increase the level of downforce by 25% without any increase in drag.“

Now, my knowledge and understanding of the more technical aspects of racing car design is limited (to say the least!), but that figure sounds extraordinary. If there was one conclusion I drew from the many hours I spent watching the cars at Tertre Rouge this year, it was that the two prototypes which handled the corner with the least drama were the Audi R10's and the Rollcentre Radical. Both took the corner as if they were running on rails. There are of course many elements to the design and setup of a car, but I had assumed that what set these two apart was due in no small way to the bucketloads of downforce these cars were producing.

So, I'm now asking myself if, with a 25% gain in downforce without any increase in drag, Radical have found the missing ingredient which set the RS Spyder apart from 'the rest of the pack' in 2006?

(I thought I'd change the direction of this existing thread rather than start a new one)

I am absolutely astonished that in this day and age a company which wants to be a major player in the Le Mans Type sports car market has only just gone in to the wind tunnel. Perhaps if they had done that in the first place the original aero woulds have been spot on & the performance better as a result. Not that I could ever afford an SR9 but I don't think that I would spend a significant amount of money to race at this level unless I was confident that it had been designed thoroughly!

Graham Goodwin · 7 Dec 2006, 15:47 (Ref:1784225)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy97

I am absolutely astonished that in this day and age a company which wants to be a major player in the Le Mans Type sports car market has only just gone in to the wind tunnel. Perhaps if they had done that in the first place the original aero woulds have been spot on & the performance better as a result. Not that I could ever afford an SR9 but I don't think that I would spend a significant amount of money to race at this level unless I was confident that it had been designed thoroughly!

If you had read the original article on dsc you'd have seen that the Bentley was only wind tunnel tested at a very late stage

knighty · 7 Dec 2006, 16:22 (Ref:1784238)

This may have something to do with the advances made in CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) whereby they can model the aero performance on computer........I'm told F1 teams are now much more trusting in CFD results, unlike previous years.......hence, the design could be well advanced without actual wind tunnel tests.........Peter Elleray is no idiot, and I dare say CFD was a key design tool when he penned the SR9........an even if CFD wasnt used - lets be honest he's not a virgin to sports-prototype car design.

MulsanneMike · 8 Dec 2006, 15:18 (Ref:1785204)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

If you had read the original article on dsc you'd have seen that the Bentley was only wind tunnel tested at a very late stage

That's quite a misrepresentation by someone. Indeed the Bentely program benefitted from near continuous wind tunnel development starting as early as the R8C (I know, I know Peter, you like to disassociate the R8C from the Bentley, but surely you didn't "un-learn" anything...;0)). Peter indicates that wind tunnel testing for Bentley began in September of '99 at Emmen.

CFD still has a ways to go, at least given what is available to most. I have yet to see a CFD developed part actually work in the tunnel, but that is more a refelection of the amount of CFD/model interface I've been involved with than anything else.

ss_collins · 20 Nov 2006, 10:48 (Ref:1770472)

25% with 0% increase in drag - seriously? thats very very difficult indeed seeeing as a rule of thumb more downforce = more drag. But if true then the SR9 will be incredibly fast.

canam · 20 Nov 2006, 11:12 (Ref:1770495)

It also suggests that the car was far from being '97% there'.

If this is the case, they will be able to trim the car back with less downfore and have higher top speeds. 25% is a huge number. Did they indicate how many days they spent in the tunnel?

**Bentley03** · 20 Nov 2006, 12:34 (Ref:1770583)

Quote:

Originally Posted by canam

Did they indicate how many days they spent in the tunnel?

No, neither in the DSC article, nor in a brief article about the tests (with some photos) on the Radical website.

Mike_Wooshy · 20 Nov 2006, 16:20 (Ref:1770740)

I still think the Radical is the chassis to have if launching an assault On LMP2 !
It looks so nice, with this added downforce with no drag drawbacks it will be seriously quick machine. As I said on another post What I'd give to watch a rotary powered one of these go !!

The Badger · 20 Nov 2006, 16:51 (Ref:1770758)

Any news on BK motorsports yet ..... maybe a mazda SR9 !!!

prototype · 20 Nov 2006, 17:43 (Ref:1770782)

Mazda is supposed to announce something at the LA autoshow in early December.

AU N EGL · 20 Nov 2006, 23:46 (Ref:1771061)

SR9 wind tunnel photos

http://www.radicalextremesportscars....mira/index.php

MulsanneMike · 21 Nov 2006, 03:04 (Ref:1771117)

25% more does sound extraodinarly optimistic as we're talking 800-1000+lbs more downforce. I didn't know one could give up that much and still be that quick. I've spent a fair amount of time in wind tunnels and know that to find that amount is pretty substantial. But a simple optimisation of the rear wing and front diffuser might very well get you there pretty quickly.

MulsanneMike · 21 Nov 2006, 11:22 (Ref:1771334)

On the other hand that 25% number could very well be a marketing person's contribution....

Graham Goodwin · 21 Nov 2006, 12:15 (Ref:1771390)

The 25% wording came direct from Tim

AU N EGL · 21 Nov 2006, 16:10 (Ref:1771524)

The more downforce you have the slower the car. Downforce is needed for highspeed grip in corners. Downforce can kill straight line speed.

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