Acura/HPD's future plans

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

Strakka

Yes they what to race in P1 next year but the cost of the new HPD P1 and running it all year with enough spares(Nick crashes at the wrong places) to finish the season.

The talk is either HPD backs him(that could happen) or he finds a new big sponsor it will not happen.

I've read he's saving up for the big 8MJ pack, surely if he doesn't find the money he could just go for the 2MJ unit? And if Nick races the 'B' car, I guess HPD wouldn't mind? Strakka have punched above their weight many times before...

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic then

[Articus]

I would like to see Strakka expand to LMP1 and LMP2 with Nick running in the LMP2 car. He's been having crashes at every round this season. Its not really fair of him to keep asking(even though he owns the team) to be in the P1 car. They're not going to win anything like that. Not when the rest of P1 is a bunch of razor sharp knives...

[Simmi]

Did Nick crash at Le Mans this year? I thought it was the pro guys who had issues when they were in the car?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by TF110

Hes a Honda driver, button is not. Sato raced Fuji last year with the Oak P1 and had no issues. He won an Indycar race earlier this season, hes not the only guy who crashed a car.

But he is the only guy on probation in the IndyCar series

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108771

Think this is Sato done as a potential sports car driver.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Did Nick crash at Le Mans this year? I thought it was the pro guys who had issues when they were in the car?

My mistake. It was Johnny Kane who crashed in the damp drying conditions.

[Richard117]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I think that was a tongue-in-cheek comment about Ganassi's lack or racing outside of the US, I think. In any instance, Ganassi have raced outside of the US before, travelling to Brazil, England and Germany with the Indycar or CART circus.

However, it would be a massive shock if Ganassi started racing outside of a US based series, wouldn't it? I would say "stranger things have happened"...but have they?

Maybe I'm too young to remember them racing out of a US series, but to me they're one of those rigidly American teams that like to race in the States and begrudgingly do so elsewhere. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily...

Chip Ganassi (as driver) drove the 1987 24h of Le Mans in a Sauber

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Richard117

Chip Ganassi (as driver) drove the 1987 24h of Le Mans in a Sauber

I'd completely forgotten that! I believe he was driving the camera car?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

But he is the only guy on probation in the IndyCar series

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108771

Think this is Sato done as a potential sports car driver.

I doubt it. Thats like saying he never should have had an IndyCar chance because he crashed in F1 Probation has happened to other drivers as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if Franchitti escapes similar scrutiny even though he was penalized today.

[littleman]

I think Strakka are probably somewhat disappointed with the performance of this years ARX-03c.The Rebellion, basically a much modified "old" Lola,has been much quicker all year and would have been 5/6 laps clear at Le Mans but for it's troubles.

Why do we think the new Wirth Coupe will be any better? It will be expensive but will it be fast? Unless Honda really commit and give some financial backing a cheaper alternative might be attractive...........................

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by TF110

I doubt it. Thats like saying he never should have had an IndyCar chance because he crashed in F1 Probation has happened to other drivers as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if Franchitti escapes similar scrutiny even though he was penalized today.

Hmmm, I'm really not convinced TF110. I see the link with Sato and HPD, I mean he wound up in an OAK when they stuck the power unit in the back of the car at Fuji, but really he's shown that he'd be a liability in a sports car. The best LMP1 drivers drive right on the limit, lap after lap, making mistakes a very rare occurence...you don't see Lotterer throwing himself into the back of rivals on pit entry, or bottling it on the last lap of the most importance race of the season with victory in sight.

His downfall in IndyCar is his accident-prone nature....his 10th place in the standings doesn't tell the story of his speed, but he's too erratic and ends up with too many DNFs. There are plenty of IndyCar team owners, I'm sure, who would actually say Sato should not have had his chance and wouldn't dream of hiring him! He won't race for Penske or Ganassi...

The reason why I'm discussing this though is not to have some off-topic talk about Sato. It would seem HPD are keen on stepping up their involvement again and as a result, I would expect a Japanese Honda driver to find a seat. I just don't think it will be Sato, unfortunately, and I think a few heads might be scratched if it is.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by littleman

I think Strakka are probably somewhat disappointed with the performance of this years ARX-03c.The Rebellion, basically a much modified "old" Lola,has been much quicker all year and would have been 5/6 laps clear at Le Mans but for it's troubles.

Why do we think the new Wirth Coupe will be any better? It will be expensive but will it be fast? Unless Honda really commit and give some financial backing a cheaper alternative might be attractive...........................

Well if Honda seem keen on forming ties with teams to make pseudo-factory efforts, I would guess that HPD themselves have quite a bit of faith in the car. Not to mention they'll offer the most powerful hybrid system allowed by the rules...that requires a lot of investment.

[Puzzle]

Originally Posted by littleman

I think Strakka are probably somewhat disappointed with the performance of this years ARX-03c.The Rebellion, basically a much modified "old" Lola,has been much quicker all year and would have been 5/6 laps clear at Le Mans but for it's troubles.

Why do we think the new Wirth Coupe will be any better? It will be expensive but will it be fast? Unless Honda really commit and give some financial backing a cheaper alternative might be attractive...........................

the ARX is based on a courage which was one of the first cars off the block when things went from LMP900, LMGTP and LMP675 to LMP1 and LMP2 with relitively minor revision to the tub since then. I'm not sure how much went into development of the Lolas up till around the time the Rebellions got built but I'm pretty sure they are a later design even if they carried a lot over from earlier iterations.

[Maelochs]

I had thought that the later HPDs were fresh designs. I know the original HPDs were based on the Courage, but that was almost ten years ago with the ARX-01a etc. I thought the -03s were ground-up. I will go check at Mulsanne Mike's site in a while---he will know.

[chernaudi]

The ARX-03 are still based on the Courage C70 family's tub. Wirth Research just made enough changes to the design of the cars' tubs to avoid copyright litigation or royalty payments to Oreca. I'm pretty sure that a fair number of parts from the -01 and -03 will interchange, which is probably the main reason for the similarity of design.

[Christian Mogami]

The only 100% HPD/Wirth chassis is the ARX-02!

The first to have rear tires in the front.

It was design to be a sprinter over an endurance racer because most of the ALMS races that year were short or street and even at the only race they raced Audi(Sebring)they got the pole but couldn't keep pace in the long race.

The only fault of the car was that Acura didn't give HPD the budget to build a new engine,they had to stroke the 3.4L to 4.0L(drivers said engine sucked!) instead of building a new 5.5-6L V10. The power would of been close but the torque and lower-end of the bigger engine would help to keep up with the diesels.

The other problem was it was hard to work on(F1 tech) and big tires!

[gustavobamba]

In a pratical way wich means the "8Mj" hybrid power???

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

The only 100% HPD/Wirth chassis is the ARX-02!


The only fault of the car was that Acura didn't give HPD the budget to build a new engine,they had to stroke the 3.4L to 4.0L(drivers said engine sucked!) instead of building a new 5.5-6L V10. The power would of been close but the torque and lower-end of the bigger engine would help to keep up with the diesels.

The other problem was it was hard to work on(F1 tech) and big tires!

The engine certainly was a factor, one only had to see the car get swallowed up on the start finish line to realize that. But there were some other factors, The car did indeed earn the pole, but only after using every possible lap to get proper heat into those large front tires. The extra front grip took time to achieve, in race conditions, the Audis and Peugeots were long gone by the time the 02a got fully up to speed.
Neither Wirth nor Michelin had tested enough to realize that a special front tire was required. Since that first season, teams running large fronts have had the benefit of the HPD's trials. Front tires are now constructed to heat up more quickly.
Another issue was driver strength. If I recall correctly, Scott Dixon set the pole time, he was a veteran of open wheel cars that often ran without the benefit of power steering. He could muscle those wide fronts probably a little easier than the regular Sportscar drivers. Granted De Ferran was an open wheeler too but he was long past his prime. The car's 50/50 weight balance increased the weighty feel of the 02a. At speed, it most likely was not a serious issue, but grabbing full lock to make the hotel hairpin or the back and forth sawing needed to zip through the esses before the final straight, all these made the car just a little heavier to steer.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by littleman

I think Strakka are probably somewhat disappointed with the performance of this years ARX-03c.The Rebellion, basically a much modified "old" Lola,has been much quicker all year and would have been 5/6 laps clear at Le Mans but for it's troubles.

Why do we think the new Wirth Coupe will be any better? It will be expensive but will it be fast? Unless Honda really commit and give some financial backing a cheaper alternative might be attractive...........................

If Honda/Acura or whatever they wanna call it get behind the customer cars the way that they did in '07 '08 then the new P1 Acura is going to fly. When they developed that P2 car it had more downforce than anything else out on track. A little bit slower in a straight line however. But they took the fight to Porsche and were quicker at most tracks than the RS Spyder. I remember the sensational qualy session at Laguna a few years back with the Acura almost dipping into 1:09

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Hmmm, I'm really not convinced TF110. I see the link with Sato and HPD, I mean he wound up in an OAK when they stuck the power unit in the back of the car at Fuji, but really he's shown that he'd be a liability in a sports car. The best LMP1 drivers drive right on the limit, lap after lap, making mistakes a very rare occurence...you don't see Lotterer throwing himself into the back of rivals on pit entry, or bottling it on the last lap of the most importance race of the season with victory in sight.

His downfall in IndyCar is his accident-prone nature....his 10th place in the standings doesn't tell the story of his speed, but he's too erratic and ends up with too many DNFs. There are plenty of IndyCar team owners, I'm sure, who would actually say Sato should not have had his chance and wouldn't dream of hiring him! He won't race for Penske or Ganassi...

The reason why I'm discussing this though is not to have some off-topic talk about Sato. It would seem HPD are keen on stepping up their involvement again and as a result, I would expect a Japanese Honda driver to find a seat. I just don't think it will be Sato, unfortunately, and I think a few heads might be scratched if it is.

I dont care either way if Sato joins their program, I was just making a point that he was seen as erratic before but he still has an IndyCar drive. He tries too hard, endurance racing isn't the same. He has drove these cars before so it wouldnt surprise me to see him at LeMans or Fuji. He would definitely be a hit there or Suzuka if they ever race there again.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by TF110

I doubt it. Thats like saying he never should have had an IndyCar chance because he crashed in F1 Probation has happened to other drivers as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if Franchitti escapes similar scrutiny even though he was penalized today.

You seem to like Sato rather a lot. Probation is not what's going to haunt him, but the reason for it may.

What exacly did he do? I haven't watched. The article says he ran into someone in the pit-lane. As in 'on purpose'? If that's the case, probation is jsut a slap on the wrist, for things like that one should be looking for a new career.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

You seem to like Sato rather a lot. Probation is not what's going to haunt him, but the reason for it may.

What exacly did he do? I haven't watched. The article says he ran into someone in the pit-lane. As in 'on purpose'?

It was accidental, just very clumsy. He came into the pits, as planned, just slowing down for the pit lane speed limit didn't really seem to be part of that plan, as Hunter-Reay found out.

[Gingers4Justice]

Back to HPD and Ganassi - plenty of rumours about them wanting to race in America, but what about Le Mans? Because, if they do race in the US only, that would be massively disappointing from my point of view. Shame if only one country would get to see the cars race.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

It was accidental, just very clumsy. He came into the pits, as planned, just slowing down for the pit lane speed limit didn't really seem to be part of that plan, as Hunter-Reay found out.

I feel for him. Whether it's bad luck or whatever, it will only worsen his image of unreliable driver.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I feel for him. Whether it's bad luck or whatever, it will only worsen his image of unreliable driver.

As do I. But the best drivers don't get this image because they don't let things like that happen. He's not a bad driver, not at all, just very far from faultless and extremely accident prone. Not the makings of a decent sports car driver. But stranger things have happened.

Soheil Ayari seems to be a rather accident prone driver, yet he found himself in a winning car in 2005.

But the bar has been raised somewhat since the mid noughties, to the point where there's a massive overlap in talent between LMP1/GTE Prod, and the seats taken lower down on the grid in F1.

If HPD/Honda are going to step up and offer a much better package, that rise in interest will probably lead to a Japanese driver or two finding a seat. As interesting as Sato may be in a prototype, I think it wouldn't take a lot of serious thought to realise that there's a long list of drivers who could do a more reliable job.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

You seem to like Sato rather a lot. Probation is not what's going to haunt him, but the reason for it may.

What exacly did he do? I haven't watched. The article says he ran into someone in the pit-lane. As in 'on purpose'? If that's the case, probation is jsut a slap on the wrist, for things like that one should be looking for a new career.

I support Japanese drivers and manufacturers and want to see them do well. That's all.