Acura/HPD's future plans

[carbon_titanium]

RML was an HPD customer in the recent past, was the first team to use the honda 3.4 V8 lmp2 engine in a not ARX chassis in 2010 and entered in the 2011 LMS season with a HPD arx-01d or g

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

Also HPD(Wirth?)is working on a Honda Body(NSX or CLX?) for the DP!
Could see it later in the year!

I don't follow what level of "balancing" happens (if any) with respect to DP bodies. I do feel that the newer (Corvette?) body style is more visually appealing, but I would assume there is plenty of room for aerodynamic games. If HPD builds a better DP body, will it be subject to some level of balancing (i.e. such as a veto of specific elements) by IMSA?

Richard

[Christian Mogami]

They are building the body for Marketing(to sell cars) only, not for any other reason.

The same reason they are using the MR NSX in a FR Series in Japan(marketing)

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

They are building the body for Marketing(to sell cars) only, not for any other reason.

The same reason they are using the MR NSX in a FR Series in Japan(marketing)

I get that professional racing (for the most part) is marketing, but seriously? I find that hard to believe that performance impacts will have "zero" impact on a purpose built DP body. I am not joking here, but if test audiences wants to see a Godzilla shaped DP car, would Honda race one?

Richard

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I get that professional racing (for the most part) is marketing, but seriously? I find that hard to believe that performance impacts will have "zero" impact on a purpose built DP body. I am not joking here, but if test audiences wants to see a Godzilla shaped DP car, would Honda race one?

Richard

Welcome to marketing.The only reason the HPD DP project is happening is because AHM is paying for it.It looks like the Marketing Bosses at AHM thinks it would look good to their customers that an American made 'tube frame' NSX beats an American made 'tube frame' Corvette.And it looks like IMSA(NASCAR) agrees,they would like the fords with Mustang bodies.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

It looks like the Marketing Bosses at AHM thinks it would look good to their customers that an American made 'tube frame' NSX beats an American made 'tube frame' Corvette.And it looks like IMSA(NASCAR) agrees,they would like the fords with Mustang bodies.

No thank you, that generic Riley body is enough for Ford.

BTW, why do IMSA has to make balances to the bodywork when theoretically, it doesn't gain aero advantage if a Honda NSX DP is pitted against a Corvette DP, plus the rest of the Prototype cars?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

Welcome to marketing.The only reason the HPD DP project is happening is because AHM is paying for it.It looks like the Marketing Bosses at AHM thinks it would look good to their customers that an American made 'tube frame' NSX beats an American made 'tube frame' Corvette.And it looks like IMSA(NASCAR) agrees,they would like the fords with Mustang bodies.

I really am not sure if you are joking or not. Or maybe this is just an anti DP rant (I am not a fan myself, but it is the world we live in).

So... Yes, I (don't we all?) understand that marketing drives racing budgets and also may even define some elements of the solution (race in series X, needs to have styling cues that match the brand, etc.) But ultimately it is then handed over to those who do the actual work of putting something on track. And that is not the marketing team, but rather some type of motorsports division or a third party (parties) group of the same ilk.

They work within the budget, rules and restrictions given to them. So you are saying that Honda has commissioned someone to create a new DP body and they have given them specific instructions to NOT include performance in its design. That the ONLY criteria is styling and likely cost?

Richard

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I get that professional racing (for the most part) is marketing, but seriously? I find that hard to believe that performance impacts will have "zero" impact on a purpose built DP body. I am not joking here, but if test audiences wants to see a Godzilla shaped DP car, would Honda race one?

Richard

Of course not. Nissan would

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I really am not sure if you are joking or not. Or maybe this is just an anti DP rant (I am not a fan myself, but it is the world we live in).

So... Yes, I (don't we all?) understand that marketing drives racing budgets and also may even define some elements of the solution (race in series X, needs to have styling cues that match the brand, etc.) But ultimately it is then handed over to those who do the actual work of putting something on track. And that is not the marketing team, but rather some type of motorsports division or a third party (parties) group of the same ilk.

They work within the budget, rules and restrictions given to them. So you are saying that Honda has commissioned someone to create a new DP body and they have given them specific instructions to NOT include performance in its design. That the ONLY criteria is styling and likely cost?

Richard

Well yes there will be a performance clause to the motorsports division(HPD/Wirth) and third party(team).YOU MUST Beat the Corvette and BETTER TO WIN!

This DP program(American Honda is paying the bills) is different than the P2 program(customer is paying the bills).

[TF110]

Why would you make a fancy design when all DP's run spec aero parts? All you would really need is a generic shape with some NSX style headlights and front grille. Everything else is more a waste of time imo.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I really am not sure if you are joking or not. Or maybe this is just an anti DP rant (I am not a fan myself, but it is the world we live in).

So... Yes, I (don't we all?) understand that marketing drives racing budgets and also may even define some elements of the solution (race in series X, needs to have styling cues that match the brand, etc.) But ultimately it is then handed over to those who do the actual work of putting something on track. And that is not the marketing team, but rather some type of motorsports division or a third party (parties) group of the same ilk.

They work within the budget, rules and restrictions given to them. So you are saying that Honda has commissioned someone to create a new DP body and they have given them specific instructions to NOT include performance in its design. That the ONLY criteria is styling and likely cost?

Richard

It wouldn't make any sense to include more than DP-baseline performance in the design, as the bodywork has to be send to NASCAR's wind tunnel and be 'aero-matched' so that it won't outpace its competitors.

DTM did something similar before switching to the new common template chassis. Before each season, they'd send all cars to the wind tunnel and 'aero-match' them, by determining the placement of the rear wing, etc. IIRC BTCC does something similar as well under their NGTC-regs.

So taking style over substance and negating any possible aero-gains is not something limited to what was once Gran Am.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

It wouldn't make any sense to include more than DP-baseline performance in the design, as the bodywork has to be send to NASCAR's wind tunnel and be 'aero-matched' so that it won't outpace its competitors.

DTM did something similar before switching to the new common template chassis. Before each season, they'd send all cars to the wind tunnel and 'aero-match' them, by determining the placement of the rear wing, etc. IIRC BTCC does something similar as well under their NGTC-regs.

So taking style over substance and negating any possible aero-gains is not something limited to what was once Gran Am.

Thank you for answering my question. The moaning about how the marketing team has ruined our lives was wearing thin.

Does anyone know what they do with respect to the aero matching? Are they looking for total downforce, downforce balance and drag numbers? Even if they do aero matching, I expect they match only on specific criteria, but they can't match on everything. The bodies are different, they will have performance differences on track even if overall they perform similar on average (or at least to the factors they were balanced on).

So for example... lets say that the Corvette DP body is pitch sensitive, or maybe has a sweet spot regarding rake, etc. Could Honda create a new DP body that still passes the IMSA "aero matching" testing, but yet still works better on the track? More forgiving to setup? Easier to drive? Or would it all be for naught in that if the car ends up being fast, it would go back for a second round of tweaks to slow it down? Is there any precedent for tweaking (slowing) a DP body once it has been approved?

Richard

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

So for example... lets say that the Corvette DP body is pitch sensitive, or maybe has a sweet spot regarding rake, etc. Could Honda create a new DP body that still passes the IMSA "aero matching" testing, but yet still works better on the track? More forgiving to setup? Easier to drive? Or would it all be for naught in that if the car ends up being fast, it would go back for a second round of tweaks to slow it down? Is there any precedent for tweaking (slowing) a DP body once it has been approved?

Richard

Grand Am never bopped chassis before the advent of the G3s, that's pretty much why the Riley became the default option in the G1 and G2 years.

When they introduced the G3s, the Corvette was substantially compromised vs the Riley, as the latter didn't have to adhere to any styling cues. During the 2012 season there was quite a bit of back and forth, with the Corvettes gaining (being given, that is) an edge by mid season. So by summer, the Rileys that had been dominant at Daytona were nowhere to be seen until GA finally granted them 4 inches deep front diveplanes (vs 1 inch before). At the end of 2012 the balance between the Riley and the Vette was quite decent, so they pretty much kept that through 2013 without any big changes.

[David Land]

Before Honda completely switches to meh sounding V6's lets enjoy the sound of that lovely V8 one more time, with some video I shot at Petit of the Muscle Milk car... enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suwqO0E8v00

(I had forgotten how good that car sounded until I made this video haha!)

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by David Land

Before Honda completely switches to meh sounding V6's lets enjoy the sound of that lovely V8 one more time, with some video I shot at Petit of the Muscle Milk car... enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suwqO0E8v00

(I had forgotten how good that car sounded until I made this video haha!)

Wish you could of heard both the mm hpd and the rebellion tmg at long beach, through the fountain complex and on ther rear straight that sound bouncing off the buildings echoing in the air was glorious! Wish I had recorded it, that Friday morning practice last year was one of the best I've seen and heard.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Articus

Of course not. Nissan would

I did a crude photoshop of a GT-R derived DP back in 2012.

[JoestForEver]

Good job!

[hondafan37]

This was the design of Honda DP in 2012
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...130118&page=63

[somebodysb2]

Originally Posted by Matt

I did a crude photoshop of a GT-R derived DP back in 2012.

Is it me or does the R35 design language look more "proper" in DP form than the Corvette design?

[TF110]

Still rather see the GT500 GTR.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Those look pretty cool

[Rcz]

I rather see Nissan dust off one of their R390 GT1 cars and run it as a DP

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Rcz

I rather see Nissan dust off one of their R390 GT1 cars and run it as a DP

Carbon chassis - so no can do

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Rcz

I rather see Nissan dust off one of their R390 GT1 cars and run it as a DP

that car already looks like a DP too.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

This was the design of Honda DP in 2012
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...130118&page=63

@Matt

I'll be impressed if you can make a mock-up of a NSX DP.

Now then, just hoping that something good coming from Honda after the 24 Hours of Daytona.