Stewards Reprimand both drivers.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Really?
I would imagine that at the moment it's akin to Maradona returning to football and the younger generation running rings around him.

Something special was Japan 05, Alonso over taking around the outside of Suzuka 130R. To a lesser degree, Lewis's move on Rosberg in Australia was pretty special too.
Watching any driver racing and beating what is clearly a struggling MS, doesn't make it special.

Ok, maybe my extreme disliking of TGF made it enjoyable. Not that I am a big Hamilton fan either...

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Do you want racing? of course you do and so do I and many others.

I assume Canada ALMS fan was referring to the pitlane exit incident - how does that relate to racing? What was he trying to achieve, there was no realistic chance he was going to beat Vettel out of the lane given he (SV) could pick up the throttle a second ahead of Hamilton, it was a brain explosion IMO. Part of racing is to know when to concede.

[csirl]

When exiting the pits, the driver who is completely in the main pit lane has the right of way full stop. SV was in the main pit lane and had position on LH. LH should have give way and slotted in behind. He should not be allowed to continue down the painted area until the end of the pit lane. As SV has position and right of way, he is fully entitled to use the full width of the lane. LH should have been penalised.

As for going across the gravel - you should not be allowed to enter the pits via an off road excursion. The rules should clarify that if you miss the entrance to the pit feeder lane by going off onto grass/gravel then though luck, you have to rejoin the race track and come in on the following lap.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso are the best racers we have.. Quilt making and knitting are fairly safe though...

Perhaps throw in a spot of 'weaving' too.

I also think that there are others out there that can 'race' just as well as those two....and be less controversial while doing it. No one minds drivers taking it to the limits, but there has to be a point that's defined as going beyond.

[Spritle]

Funny, when MS was driving at his peak, aggressive tactics by him usually were followed will cries for his head and penalties. I can only imagine the screaming if Michael pulled that pit lane move.

When dear sweet LH does something over the top it's good racing and we are busy blessing ourselves that we have him.

Good thing old Lewis isn't a German driving a Ferrari, he be toast on these threads!

[bravo]

Obviously a lot of people here are better drivers than the current F1 drivers.

The release was fine. Vettel wasn't into the pitlane when the lolipop went up, and the 55m thing can't apply to cars that are in their box behind you.

Hamilton did well to spot the RBR and not collide with the RBR or Williams pit crew after he lost acceleration with wheelspin. The RBR might not have been as lucky with their miror position.

Wheels were then interlocked, hamilton braking or easing off while in that position would have resulted in a front to rear wheel crash which we know results in spinning or 'flicking' of the car.

The only dangerous thing I saw that could have been easily avoided was the drifting over to the right which Vettel was controlling.

I see a lot of people baying for blood because of Hamilton pulling out onto the RBR. Well I don't remember them being so vocal when others drove off with fuel lines or wheel guns attached. It's the crew's fault if it's Alonso or Massa, and Hamilton's if he pulls out onto another car.

[Cynic]

Granted we didn't all have the internet back then, but I'm fairly certain that Senna and Prost used to pull all sorts of dubious moves on each other without generating anywhere near this level of controversy....

I haven't seen the incidents in question so you may take my thoughts with as big a pinch of salt as you like.

Entering the pitlane is an interesting one as technically (afaik) until you hit the line where the limiter has to be applied you're still on the racetrack. Despite the blend lines, pit entries and exits aren't separate from the racetrack, and so any misdemeanours should be treated by the stewards in the same way as any other on-track incident. Recent history would suggest that using the countryside to stay ahead of a competitor should at least merit a drive through so I think Lewis has been lucky there.

The pitlane exit was a testicle comparing exercise by both drivers and can be argued both ways. On the one hand SB should have backed off knowing that he couldn't pass Hamilton before hitting the limiter. Alternatively, once SB was alongside him Hamilton should have backed off in order to get into the fast line. Which option you prefer will depend on which one of the two you consider to be Satan's offspring. What was totally out of order and definitely warrants some sort of rollicking was the Red Bull 'moving to the right' as they went down the pitlane. This is usually a euphenism for 'trying to put the opposition into the scenery'. Fine on the circuit proper, but not in the pitlane where you don't have umpteen acres of run-off.

[GT6]

Loads of great posts on this subject, proves that there is life in F1, committed racers will have incidents like these and the new ex driver stewards understand this, others blaming one driver or the other is also part of racing, long may it continue.

Given the choice of incidents like this or the alternative processional races my choice is obvious

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by GT6

Loads of great posts on this subject, proves that there is life in F1, committed racers will have incidents like these and the new ex driver stewards understand this, others blaming one driver or the other is also part of racing, long may it continue.

Given the choice of incidents like this or the alternative processional races my choice is obvious

It does do 'something' for racing but I don't think it is necessarily positive.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by Raven

Just hard racing if you ask me. Glad to see less penalties now that ex-f1 drivers are in the stewards room. Men who know what it's like to be out on track racing for position.

Exactly. The only real debate, imo, is whether Lewis was released illegally but that was close as well. No harm, no foul is appropriate in this case.

[Super Hans]

Yep, there was no problem with the release. Had Hamilton found traction he would have slotted in ahead of Vettel. Unfortunately, he fishtailed in the wet and ended up alongside. Call the cops...etc

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Kirk

No harm, no foul is appropriate in this case.

So, as long as they cause no damage or injury, then it's fine?

[Kirk]

Not exactly Marbot. If one had pressed the situation resulting in something more serious than what went down, then that would be different, but the drivers both handled the situation properly and worked it out on their own.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Kirk

Not exactly Marbot. If one had pressed the situation resulting in something more serious than what went down, then that would be different, but the drivers both handled the situation properly and worked it out on their own.

Er not exactly, neither driver handled the situation properly.

If Hamilton had handled it properly he would have dropped back and slotted in behind Vettel as soon as he realised there was a car on his left.

If Vettel had handled it properly he would not have moved across to the right pushing Hamilton closer to the equipment and mechanics in the pitlane.

That is why they have both been reprimanded and very lucky to get away with no actual penalty.

[Marbot]

Massa's view of Alonso's overtake in the pit lane.

"When asked if he thought Alonso had pushed the boundaries of what he thought was acceptable, Massa said: "I don't know. He was inside so there was nothing I could do there. In terms of the rules, I don't know. I think he should be okay because we saw another car doing the same. You need to ask Charlie [Whiting] not me."

There's a well known saying for the mimicry of an action without fully understanding the consequences of it, but I shall refrane from using it in this instance.

[neilap]

Take it easy. Yes, this was my first F1 race. I had no idea interlocking wheels were a problem. Why dont they cover them up? I mean I have seen... heard that this could happen at higher speeds too. I know Webber would never do anything like that. I have nerver heard of him forcing anyone off track INTENTIONALLY.

I would have thought that working in the pits was dangerous at it is. In fact when the pits are full its at its most dangerous, well so I assume because its my first race. Thanks for the education.

Originally Posted by manwell

You obviously havent been watching racing long enough to see what happens when 2 wheels interlock. It can throw one car into the air a couple of meters. To say no crew would have been in danger is just ridiculous.

Sorry about the poor image but it was the best i could find on the net, but here is Hamilton with Vettel right beside him out of shot driving past another pit crew about what..... maybe 1.5m away?

To say no crew would have been in danger is just ridiculous.

Along with Hamiltons dodgy pit entry, (whether its against the rules to cross the white line/blend line on the pit entry is irrelevent), he made a position by going off the track.
Along with his hit on Webber on the restart, yeah it may have been a racing incident, but when your causing multiple incidents during a race Hamilton definitely deserved a penalty in China.

[Tourer]

Personally, I couldn't care less about the argument re who was at fault in the pit lane exit situation. They both were culpable and were probably lucky to get away with a reprimand.

Whilst several on here have talked about wanting the guys to race, there is no way that the pit lane is the place to do it with unprotected pit crews in close proximity with no protection.

Even when the pit crews are in their garages, there is no guardrail that protects them - if one of the cars had hooked an air line off a gantry then down comes gantry and heavy items would fly in uncontrolled directions - possibly into a garage with team members exposed.

Not cool at all by either of them.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Belatti

Im really tired of reading that F1 fans want overtaking and then that the men that put the balls in the game and overtakes are too dangerous for them...

Overtake on track not in the pits. I am a racing fan, so pit lane antics are not why I watch F1. Who knows, maybe fist fights during the post race interview would allow each driver to demonstrate the size of their attachments?

I am all for not overly punishing drivers for on track action, but this is simply a pit safety issue and both drivers contributed to the problem. Hamilton should have given in and pulled behind Vettel. Vettel should not have pushed him into the slow lane as it left little room for Hamilton to maneuver (or brake) once they had their wheel interlocked. I think the multiple incidences of racing/passing in the pit entrance were wrong as well, however, I am not familiar with how the rules handle that scenario.

I have no opinion regarding the severity of any punishment. The bottom line is that drivers need to realize there can be repercussions for doing this type of stuff in the pit.

[herowassenna]

If the cars had been that close going into a corner at speed, and an accident happened, wouldn't it be Hamilton who was culpable, after all his front wheel is next to Vettel's rear.
My way of reading it is, Lewis should have recognised Vettel was ahead and pulled back because they were in the pits.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Personally, I couldn't care less about the argument re who was at fault in the pit lane exit situation. They both were culpable and were probably lucky to get away with a reprimand.

That's the bottom line.

[wnut]

As far as I know you are allowed to drive a max distance of 1.5 pit boxes on the blend line. Hamilton was behind and chose to place everyone in the pits in danger.

Vettel was wrong but entitled to use the whole of the pit lane, and deserves a reprimand. His actions have been justified by the lack of action against Hamilton. If Hamilton had been allowed to make the position through his reckless action would he have been allowed to keep it?
This action is much more serious than slightly cutting the blend line at the end of the pits when rejouning the track.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Yep, there was no problem with the release. Had Hamilton found traction he would have slotted in ahead of Vettel. Unfortunately, he fishtailed in the wet and ended up alongside. Call the cops...etc

Nice avatar mate... and good post, are you in charge this evening? because if so.........My regular shrink in not available and I have....

[neilap]

Going back to my original post the intent was to compliment the decisions made but well its degraded hasn't it? But really many drivers were over eager but the fact is if the stewards had began handing out penalties then we would be here arguing about how poorly judged those penalties were. I say, let them race. The pit entry antics wont happen again. There are two lanes in the pits not just one, some might not realize this and feel the sky was falling. Maybe sponsor ads dont need to be painted where the drivers accelerate from their boxes.

[djb]

all of you know that in the past, and not so long ago past, and in all kinds of racing, pitlane get togethers have meant hurt people. You can see all kinds of gruesome incidents, and just with all the gruesome on-track incidents over the years that lead to diff rules, safer car designs etc etc etc, this pitlane tomfoolery should be dealt with and made clear about no screwing around.
Neil--Im sorry but your sarcastic response to the fellow who posted a screenshot of how close Ham. was to another crew wasnt appreciated. He was that close and if they had locked wheels, while he prob. wouldnt have flown up high, his car could easily snapped sideways and taken the poor sod who we see with his back to all this.
Remember the clip of the poor mechanic who in the 80s was trying to restart a stalled car on the grid, and then gets crushed by a car from behind who doesnt see A. the stalled car, and B. the mechanic there----this sort of thing is why we have the 2 minute rule or whatever it is for crew to be off the grid.
There is nothing wrong with rules that are set up to avoid things that have happened in the past, and do not "dilute" the racing. If a crew member doesnt get skwershed because we restrict guys fighting for position in the pitlane, fine with me. There has been enough pitlane skwershing in the past, why relive it?

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by neilap

There are two lanes in the pits not just one, some might not realize this and feel the sky was falling. Maybe sponsor ads dont need to be painted where the drivers accelerate from their boxes.

There are two lanes, but not for cars to drive side-by-side...

Originally Posted by F1 Sporting Regs

23.1 a) For the avoidance of doubt and for description purposes, the pit lane shall be divided into two lanes. The lane closest to the pit wall is designated the "fast lane", and the lane closest to the garages is designated the "inner lane".
Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane under Articles 38.2 and 41.5, the inner lane is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car.