Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[David Land]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

That's a brilliant idea, we'd all love to see that.

And that's why it will never happen.

Sorry this was a very funny post.

I hope the USCR isn't THAT stupid...

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by Mal

I know some GA teams wont like it - but surely the answer is the 'North American Endurance cup' where P1 entries are accepted to say 4 nr prestige USCR events - this could be done from 2015 and only happen if there were a minimum number of entries - say 8?

With proper cooperation these event could even count towards the P1 WEC championship

I agree that this would be the ideal, but we live in a strange world these days and it seems impossible.

I understand that committing to a U sportscar series is usually dependent upon sponsors who are mainly interested in the big races. Daytona, Sebring, possibly PLM and Watkins Glen 6 Hours and at a stretch Indianapolis and Laguna Seca, are the 'bigger' races on the schedules, so the season long entrants want to be seen to perform at those races.

The problem comes in because the series owns the event (OK, it originally started the other way around) and doesn't want to diminish the perceived value of the series' entrants by taking away their ability to be the "Winners of Sebring/Daytona/etc".

Put simply, the 'little' guys want to win the 'big' events, so refuse to commit to the smaller races that comprise a series if competition arises, and the 'big' don't want to spend on the 'little' events.

That sound about right?

[Mal]

Why not then leave Daytona as the little teams big event and let P1 run at PLM,Sebring and then add one new race at somewhere like Montreal

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by skycafe

If if if factory P1 cars are in a new series which would seem to garner attention, I wonder if that draws GTE's and P2's?

But you don't have the classic venues for North America, and you are in competition with a well-financed competitor.

...if not at war.

The question is, if there is so much genuine interest from manufacturers (and teams able and willing) to race P1 cars in the US, as in enough interest to overcome the difficulty of starting a brand a new series from scratch and getting into struggle with the behemoth organisation that NASCAR is, then why would NASCAR consider this interest and turn down such an opportunity in the first place? They may be loyal enough to their DP owners to screw ALMS teams, but I doubt they would turn down the opportunity to have their own US-bound WEC with all the bells and whistles. I find it hard that such interest emerged out of nowhere just recently when it was already too late for USCR to reconsider its class structure.

This makes me think that the whole story is simply there to be used in some kind of negotiation between USCR and some interested party(ies).

[TRspitfirefan]

Originally Posted by Mal

Why not then leave Daytona as the little teams big event and let P1 run at PLM,Sebring and then add one new race at somewhere like Montreal

Maybe they should make DP's their own stand alone series. Then they could still race for overall wins.
USCR could be LMP1, LMP2, GTLM, GTD.
Sounds good to me!

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

John Dagys ‏@johndagys 22h
@Kyle9456 sorry, no comment at this time.
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John Dagys ‏@johndagys 8h
@Kyle9456 Like I said, I am not prepared to make a comment at this time.
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I feel like this is more an attempt at honest journalism and reporting than "I know something but have been instructed to keep my mouth shut." It would be fantastic if rumors were so true that people reporting on the sport knew a few specific pieces of information, but the pessimist inside of me says nay.

[joeb]

If these rumors turn out to be true it would be the death blow for any chance of a US DTM series. Not that that would upset me.....

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

I feel like this is more an attempt at honest journalism and reporting than "I know something but have been instructed to keep my mouth shut." It would be fantastic if rumors were so true that people reporting on the sport knew a few specific pieces of information, but the pessimist inside of me says nay.

Could be, but also keep in mind that everyone kept quiet about ESM trying to run P2 cars last October/November, because they didn't want to disrupt any deals or funding.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

I feel like this is more an attempt at honest journalism and reporting than "I know something but have been instructed to keep my mouth shut." It would be fantastic if rumors were so true that people reporting on the sport knew a few specific pieces of information, but the pessimist inside of me says nay.

I strongly disagree.

If there was nothing to this rumour, he would say, I've heard the rumour, don't know anything about it, or dismiss it somehow. That would be the honest journalism answer... not to suggest he is being dishonest at all.

He is refusing to talk about it, and there is only one reason to do that.

[gregtummer]

IF this series happens (and it is a monster IF), they are going to have to get Audi, Toyota, Honda, and Porsche to commit to a 3-year deal with 2 cars per team at every race so the series can get some long term stability.

[Maelochs]

And which privateers would run in this series, knowing they would never get close to the podium---even if these factories all sold customer cars, unless they also provided the engineering crews and shared info from the factory teams, privateers would be racing for ninth and tenth.

Hard to get sponsorship knowing from the start you'd always finish last.

[Christian Mogami]

On the John Dagy tweet,

for him to tweet back..there is something to the P1 rumor

or otherwise he wouldn't reply to the tweet!

[sheshnwoody]

Just don't see those teams leaving WEC (Lemans) to come race in the US. Audi didn't think ALMS was worth it, why should they now? Sebring is no longer welcoming them in a P1. Toyota is already in Nascar and didn't care to race at Sebring when they were welcome!

This must be one of the best kept secrets in sportscars!

[dxk1]

What I want to know is why didn't all of these folks speak up in the last few years and let people know that they wanted to run P1s in the US. If that had been the case we wouldn't have had the end of the ALMS and we wouldn't be going through all of these goofy conniptions with trying to ballance DPs and P2, USCR, etc. etc. The whole reason ALMS went under was the lack of good competition at the top of the food chain and now that it is dead and buried here they all come wanting to compete in P1 in the US and now we have to create a new series to accommodate them. Seem really strange to me.

DK

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I find it hard that such interest emerged out of nowhere just recently when it was already too late for USCR to reconsider its class structure.

This makes me think that the whole story is simply there to be used in some kind of negotiation between USCR and some interested party(ies).

Exactly what I think. And it's weird that e.g. Ganassi name comes up. If they had such huge interest, why are they not now in ALMS?

[gregtummer]

I wonder if this P1 stuff is what is slowing up the USCR rules and announcements?

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by deggis

Exactly what I think. And it's weird that e.g. Ganassi name comes up. If they had such huge interest, why are they not now in ALMS?

Ditto.

DK

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by dxk1

What I want to know is why didn't all of these folks speak up in the last few years and let people know that they wanted to run P1s in the US. If that had been the case we wouldn't have had the end of the ALMS and we wouldn't be going through all of these goofy conniptions with trying to ballance DPs and P2, USCR, etc. etc. The whole reason ALMS went under was the lack of good competition at the top of the food chain and now that it is dead and buried here they all come wanting to compete in P1 in the US and now we have to create a new series to accommodate them. Seem really strange to me.

DK

The reason the ALMS went under is because Panoz didn't want to own it any longer, and nobody would pay the ridiculous prices Atherton was asking... until Atherton ran it so far into the ground nobody would pay much of anything for it, and the only option they had left was NASCAR.

Porsche seems to be the leader on this, and they didn't have a P1 car to race previously. HPD has always been interested, but only if there was competition. Audi had issues with the ALMS themselves. There had been talk within the GT ranks about another series as well. Toyota Japan/AG haven't had enough of a budget to race here, maybe Toyota NA has an interest... or not.

----------

Nobody would leave the WEC to race in such a series, the entrants would come out of the North American/US marketing budgets. I too am sceptical of this.

My guess is the whole DTM thing was at the push of Audi, who wanted somewhere to race for overalls, that wasn't the ALMS. Now that Porsche is building a P1, and Audi has one... they are both interested in competing for overall victories. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, "if" there is anything to it.

As far as a schedule... take a look at Indycar, and add a couple from there.

Ganassi... he's a businessman. If someone wants to pay him to race in X... that is likely what he'll do.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The reason the ALMS went under is because Panoz didn't want to own it any longer, and nobody would pay the ridiculous prices Atherton was asking... until Atherton ran it so far into the ground nobody would pay much of anything for it, and the only option they had left was NASCAR.

Porsche seems to be the leader on this, and they didn't have a P1 car to race previously. HPD has always been interested, but only if there was competition. Audi had issues with the ALMS themselves. There had been talk within the GT ranks about another series as well. Toyota Japan/AG haven't had enough of a budget to race here, maybe Toyota NA has an interest... or not.

I agree to some extent. However, I don't think Panoz didn't want to own it anymore because he was tired of it. I believe he was tired of dealing with the manufacturers and their constant bickering. I think if he knew Porsche, Toyota, Audi, etc. interested in racing in P1, he would have held on to it and kept it going. Conjecture only on my part for sure, but I remember some interviews with Panoz just before the merger and the disgust and disappointment expressed by him were pretty palpable.

DK

[jasonjessica09]

So much speculation and ideas. I guess what could be done is have a series with LMP1 as the main class and then come to an agreement with the SCCA to have its GT3 class come in and be in the field as well. As we know there is room for the GT3 platform in the USA too. That can be used to the advantage of the folks who want a breakaway P1 series as well.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by jasonjessica09

So much speculation and ideas. I guess what could be done is have a series with LMP1 as the main class and then come to an agreement with the SCCA to have its GT3 class come in and be in the field as well. As we know there is room for the GT3 platform in the USA too. That can be used to the advantage of the folks who want a breakaway P1 series as well.

It wouldn't be the SCCA GT3 class, but the FIA GT3... if it were to happen.

[TF110]

I can see it happening. If the manufacturers push for it. This is North America, and I know this is Toyota's biggest hybrid market. Porsche is huge here as well, and Audi. HPD is in America on top of it. Like the rumors of TRD USA interested in a P2 for USCR, I wouldnt be surprised to see a p1 interest if there was a place to run it. This hopefully expands and serious talks get underway. The twitter/facebook age we live in allows us to express our wishes and these companies realize this. They do pay attention so get your word out!

[jeast]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

It wouldn't be the SCCA GT3 class, but the FIA GT3... if it were to happen.

P1 with GT3 would be great. I don't know how this will happen but it would be the best thing I could ask for after what seems to be happening next year.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

If this new p1 series were to follow indycar.....I wouldn't mind a p1/indycar weekend at laguna.that I would empty my wallet for! I've been missing open wheelers at laguna for a long time now

[cmk]

Whether this will come to pass is still anyone's guess, but I think where there's smoke there is liable to be some fire...how much and how persistent is the question. There've been rumblings about this for months, and not for nothing, because the reason for interest (which is a very different thing from commitment corporately speaking) is obvious. We have 3-4 manufacturers (depending on what the nature of the incipient HPD program is) who are producing cars with only one place to run them, one that has very little exposure in a very very important market.

The question then is how much money Audi, Porsche and Honda (and Toyota?) might be able to put up, especially if it comes largely from NA divisions - though the value of NA exposure could be worth a little bit to parent companies. That's probably the ONLY question. If the factories pay, then putting on a series is the easy bit. Sure, making a really good series is a little harder, but money solves most problems handily. Remember the glory days of the 07/08 ALMS were brought to you with substantial financial input from what manufacturers, again?