About ancient gr.5/DRM BMWs

[Don Vito]

Just wondering the power output of '78 Schnizer Turbo. Some sources say that they took 400 hp from that 1.4 Turbo but o.t.o.h. some sources say the poweroutput was even 600 hp.
Previous year's 320i had 1991cc atmo engine which has been said to produce 310hp which sounds quite realistic in my ears. Anybody out there having some facts ?

[Frank de Jong]

A general accepted figure for the 1978 Schnitzer car was 400 bhp. Schnitzer had 380 HP for the 1977 2002 turbo. Of course, power figures (especially turbocars) are never very reliable.
For the 1979 GS car, the car was said to have 540 HP; this was the prototype formula 1 engine, no less. The car was very fast, it must have had significally over 400 HP.

[Don Vito]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
A general accepted figure for the 1978 Schnitzer car was 400 bhp. Schnitzer had 380 HP for the 1977 2002 turbo. Of course, power figures (especially turbocars) are never very reliable.
For the 1979 GS car, the car was said to have 540 HP; this was the prototype formula 1 engine, no less. The car was very fast, it must have had significally over 400 HP.

Thanks. That sounds very much acceptable. I found the car's profile from www.supercars.net and allready emailed them that they have mixed up two different cars. They were saying that the 320 Turbo (no mention about Schnizer) had a 2-litre turbo engine with 600 hp output. Then I found a french site where all three "evolutions" were shown. First 2-litre atmo, then the traditional Schnizer 1.4 Turbo and last that '79 tubular hull monster (which was in fact quite far away from original E21)

[Jesper OH]

Well, BMW North America entered a McLaren built 2 litre turbo charged BMW 320i Turbo during the 1978-1979 IMSA series. With drivers like Ronnie Peterson, David Hobbs and Manfred Winkelhock this car seems to have been the only one to even remotely have given the Porsche 935s a run for their money.

The BMW/McLaren connection has re-appeared on occasion since, like the 1986 IMSA-GTP car or one of the British Touring Car Championship years in the mid-1990's (can't remember witch)...and the McLaren F1 road/GT car.

Don Vito, I see that you're Finnish and just wonder if you could enlighten us with something about Nils-Gustav Wiik and his 320 Turbo Super Saloon Car of the 1980's. I guess it was an ex-Schnitzer car. I saw him race the car a few times during the mid-80's against 935's and Camaro V8's, and still managed to do quite well.

Jesper O. Hansen

[Don Vito]

Originally posted by Jesper OH
Don Vito, I see that you're Finnish and just wonder if you could enlighten us with something about Nils-Gustav Wiik and his 320 Turbo Super Saloon Car of the 1980's. I guess it was an ex-Schnitzer car. I saw him race the car a few times during the mid-80's against 935's and Camaro V8's, and still managed to do quite well.

Jesper O. Hansen

Indeed it was a Schnizer Turbo and ex-Winkelhock. Don't know much about the car and its history, but I guess last time it has seen action (at least in Finland) was '89. I'm not even sure where the car is at the moment. Some person "knows" that it is owned by a collector who also owns ex-Jügen Bächi Sauber-BMW M1, but on the other hand it has been said that both of them are sold away. There was also an other gr.5 320 at the same time. But it was a year older 2-litre atmo. It has been said that the other one might have been ex-Jochen Mass. Nevertheless it was not fast enough to gain victories.
I've been building somekind of history site of Finnish SS-class so take a look to www.geocities.com/supersaloon2000

[Jesper OH]

Thanks for a bit of history and the link.

You're mentioning a normally aspirated 320i and found the Urpiala, Snabb e.t.c. car on your page. In late 1981/early 1982 Danish racer Jens Winther sold his 320i Gr. 5 car to his Finnish friend Tuisku Urpiala, when he graduated to a M1 himself.

The story started some years earlier. In 1978 another Dane Preben Kristoffersen, raced selected World Sports car races in his Porsche 934, untill it was written off mid-season. As a replacement he found a BMW 320i in Sweden. This car ,build by BMW Sweden, was said to have been a prototype for the normally aspirated Group 5 E21s. After the '78 season BMW Sweden thought it would be nice to have this piece of history back in Sweden and approached Kristoffersen with a deal. The 1977 prototype in exchange for a newer '78-spec. (presumably) 320i. The deal was done and Kristoffersen raced it the following two years, as previously, in selected World Championship rounds. In 1981 it was then sold to Winther, who already had had a few drives in the car as co-driver to Kristoffersen.

How's the prospect of a 2003 Finnish Special Saloon Championship or Cup? Sadly, Here in Denmark the class has lost it's championship and cup status over the last two season, and has now ended up for 2003 with nothing - except for 5 individual races.

Jesper O. Hansen

[Don Vito]

Originally posted by Jesper OH

How's the prospect of a 2003 Finnish Special Saloon Championship or Cup? Sadly, Here in Denmark the class has lost it's championship and cup status over the last two season, and has now ended up for 2003 with nothing - except for 5 individual races.

Jesper O. Hansen

No championship (official) or cup here either. SS class was kicked out from Sport2000 Tour to run in the cup weekends two years ago, but last year was a total disaster. Only three cars racing on regular basis much due to lack of audience. And then the new rules allmost killed the whole class. But for next season the SSA (SS drivers' club) decided to put up an own serie. Of course the AKK (National organisation) was outraged and threatens to take out the licence from anybody who anyhow takes part to these plans as a competitor or otherways. The final word is not yet said, but the series will come true anyway. At the moment 10 cars have been confirmed but I think I can wish any of your danish fellow competitors wellcome to join our series. More info can be found here: http://jynssi.hohto.net/ssa/index.html Unfortunately its only in finnish, but send e-mail to our chairman Jyrki Repo and ask for english version of the rules.
I remember having heard that a few years ago there was some talks about joint finnish-danish serie, but for some reason it never went any further...

[Jesper OH]

Thank you for the invitation, but I'm a mere fan of the class. I'll cross my fingers and hope that something will happen for Super Saloon in Finland in 2003 - pirate series or not.

In the meantime the Norwegian series http://www.nordic-thundercars.no/ seems to thrive. For this season they seems to have created a Scandinavian series, with races in Norway, Sweden and Denmark (no Finnish round though).

Never heard about plans for a joint Finnish/Danish series, but would like to know more. The last time I know of any Nordic series was the 1997 FIA sanctioned one-off http://www.datapower.dk/racing/nmssc.htm.

I have had a closer look at your site, and like your idea of featuring the cars rather than the drivers. In this catagory of racing that seems to be the proper way of doing it. A few years ago a similar Danish site was done the same way.

I think a few of the cars have a Danish history as well. The Olli Virtanen (ex Onni Kreivi) M1 had a short, unsuccesfull life as the Nykjær-BMW group C2 car in 1985, before it was bought by Onni Kreivi, stripped off of the Gebhardt body work and replaced with the M1 shell.
The Jari Koiranen Mazda RX-7 car went the other way I think. When Alex Buch-Larsen emerged with the car in 1988, all that was said about it's pre-history, was that it was a TWR-build car. Koiranen raced the car in Denmark a few times around 1986-87. Right from the start it proved to be a very good car for Buch-Larsen, who went on to win 3 or 4 championships with car, before it was replaced by a Porsche 911 GT1 look-alike during 1997. By then it had a 6 litre Chevy V8 under the bonnet.

Best regards
Jesper O. Hansen

[mickj]

Jesper and Don thanks for bringing the series to our attention. Very interesting to see motorsport in other countries is about.

[Jesper OH]

I know the feeling mickj. Recently I had a similar learning experience about racing history in Portugal.

The Special Saloon car theme seems to exist pretty much every where. I guess the Sports Sedans fill that niche in Australia.

Jesper O. Hansen

[Nordic]

The deal was done and Kristoffersen raced it the following two years, as previously, in selected World Championship rounds. In 1981 it was then sold to Winther, who already had had a few drives in the car as co-driver to Kristoffersen.

Would this be the car BMW320i? taken in 81 at a wet silverstone, drivers I think are Wither/Jensen

[Jesper OH]

Hi Nordic

It does say Jens Winther just above the Castrol FX logo, so I would say yes (I remember only to have seen one photo of this car in 1981, prior to this one). The actual body work, especially the rear wing looks just like the Preben Kristoffersen car.

You're right about Jens Winther/Lars-Viggo Jensen as the drivers during the Silverstone 6 hour-race on May 10 1981. The #65 team finished 12th o/a, 2nd in class.

In the same race Mazdaspeed made their European race debut with a IMSA GTU spec. TWR-build RX-7. In the hands of Yojiro Terada/Win Percy the #45 car finished 8th o/a, winner of class. Considering the speculation of the origins of the Jari Koiranen/Alex Buch-Larsen RX-7 above, do you have a picture of that car.

Don't hope you got a cold from 6 hours of rain that day.

Jesper OH

[Zep]

Hello to all. I have also gathered some info to Don Vito's pages and here's some info:

1) About Bächi/Sauber M1. As far as I know car was sold after winning Kemora 500 to Finnish collector (was supposed to go to America?) but has since moved to Sauber's collection. This is somewhat according to Team Sauber - I don't wanna tell too much as I may be able to put together my "M1 story" someday.

2) Wiik's Schnitzer 320 Turbo is ,according to Schnitzer, ex-Ertl/Winkelhock. After reading some 80's magazines I got impression that Wiik had several engine options -car was perhaps tuned from engine appartment to be more competetive in Special Saloon (car's weak place). Wiik also seemed to have quite good contacts with BMW...

3) Koiranen's Mazda RX-7. Some pictures can be found from my website personal.inet.fi/surf/mpuumala -> autourheilu
Also some sportscar history website which have photos from 60's to 90's (can't remember name or address) has photos of several IMSA GTO (GTU?) RX7s. Don Vito maybe has the address?

[Jesper OH]

Hello Zep

I have discovered I already have a link to your "Finnish Racing History" page - another interesting piece of the puzzle. Thanks for some more back ground on these cars here. Especially since I don't understand Finnish.

About the Koiranen RX-7 I have a link to this page: http://mysite.freeserve.com/Le_Mans_Photos/index.html, where there should be a picture of a #44 RX-7 from the same Silverstone race - it just doesn't show.

I think I will continue on the Nordic Special Saloon-thread.

Jesper O. Hansen

[Nordic]

Jesper
I have found 2 photos of the TWR RX7 at silverstone 81 this is the first and better one.
The link you have posted is to my brothers site and the RX7 no 44 is a more standard car, I do have pictures of that as well.

[Nordic]

TWR RX 7 on track, not one of my best efforts!
I am sorry to say that I don't remember much about the car or race, I do however remember what was to become a familiar wail from the rotary engine!

[Zep]

Not same car I think... So Koiranen's RX-7 is American build IMSA GTU racer? Perhaps we should ask it from Jari?

http://www.koiranenbros.net/

[Jesper OH]

Thank you for sharing the pictures Nordic. It's quite an elongated tail on the #45 car. I does not look like the Jari Koiranen car, but I would think that the RX-7 was developed up untill Mazda introduced their 717C Group C Junior car for 1983.
Another featury I remember about racing rotaries, is their tendency to throw some massive flames from the exhaust.

Jesper O. Hansen